55 gallon plastic drum question

[Noseguard76]

I've found a source for used 55 gallon food grade drums for sap collection. Some have have formerly contianed cappuccino, some molasses, some berry juice for $15 each. Obviously I'd like to get the berry juice or the molasses but it is hit or miss. Should I avoid the cappuccino or does it not really matter?

thanks

Noseguard

[wiam]

My father-in-law got some years ago that had some coffe type flavorings. We finally gave up and used them for something else.

[PerryW]

I used a cherry-syrup 55 gal drum for sap storage once. Even after multiple cleanings with hot water and bleach, the sap still tasted like very strong cherry. I would stay away from them.

[ihuntbear]

I use them..they need to be steamed..the guy that steams them here puts some hind of neutraliser in them

[SDdave]

So what is the "best", besides new, type of containers to clean? I have read in prior threads that worchestire, lemon concentrate, cherry syrup, and many others are a waste of time. So I guess for all of us hobbyists what should we be looking for?

SDdave

[buckeye gold]

For used barrels I found a source for once used whine barrels. I feel safe using them because of the alcohol and they seem to clean well. Any residual alcohol will cook off. I have never had a taste problem. I wash with 170 degree water and light chlorine then rinse well and I can't even smell a hint of wine, plus 170 water sterilizes. Just be really careful not to get scaulded.

[SeanD]

I've had good luck with open-top barrels that had tomatoes and bunged barrels that had sesame oil. Both cleaned up very easily. I'm currently cleaning some barrels that had olive oil in them. They cleaned up well with soap and water - no smell, but they do have a very thin layer of oil left behind. They are bunged so I can't scrub them. The ones I cut open to make a head tank and a dump station scrubbed clean easily. I'm going to try some PBW on the ones I'm not cutting open tomorrow.

Sean

[mapleguy]

make sure they are reusable. After all the discussions on this and other sites about FDA regulations I would say you should purchase new food grade syrup drums, especially if you intend to sell syrup. There is always a possibility you will have syrup with an off flavor.

[Ausable]

Two of my drums had dill pickles in them. Washed them a couple of time and still had the smell - but not as strong. When I used them for sap I had No problem with the pickle taste or smell tainting the maple sap. It took about three years of use and washing and rinsing before the pickle aroma was gone from the drums. It bothered me - but - not the maple sap. ----Mike----

[mapleguy]

FYI,my bulk buyer will not accept any drums that have been used for anything other than syrup. Must be something going on there. Thanks!

[SeanD]

We're talking about two different things. He's looking for barrels for sap collection. In that case, you can reuse clean food-grade barrels. Selling syrup in barrels has a different set of rules.

Sean

[wiam]

We're talking about two different things. He's looking for barrels for sap collection. In that case, you can reuse clean food-grade barrels. Selling syrup in barrels has a different set of rules.

Sean
Different rules. Same reasons.

[adk1]

It's true, I am using 55gal barrels for sap and only sap storage. Meaning the sap only is in the barrel when it's cold and isn't in there very long. Syrup would b different

[mapleguy]

So then it's okay to use, lets say 5 gal. pails for collecting that had hydraulic oil or motor oil or pesticides for that matter as long as I scrub them until they no longer have an odor. I know I'm talking extremes here, but all this industry needs is some negative occurrence of contamination and the arm of the FDA will come down on everyone. Don't take anything for granted.

[SeanD]

No, that's obviously not ok. That's not what is being discussed here. There is a big difference between a bucket or barrel that had motor oil in it and one that had a single use of frosting or tomatoes. Review the previous posts here. Don't make this conversation something it is not.

Thanks,
Sean

[SDdave]

I think this topic comes along about 18 times a year. I "revived" this thread for the simple asking of what FOOD GRADE barrels are easy to clean for SAP STORAGE as we are in the sap storage section. I did not mean to pour a gallon of gas on the ever growing fire of food/non-food grade debacle (which I am severely sick of). Thank you all for your time and replies.

SDdave

[buckeye gold]

I agree there is a huge difference between pesticides or petroleum and other food products. Really what harm is there other than flavor if a trace amount of another food is in the plastic, it was food! No one expects frosting, grape juice or cola syrup to poison anyone. If your worried about bacteria a good cleaning and hours of boiling take care of that. Now syrup storage is different, that is the final product before consumption and a longer storage. This was a question about sap handling. Most gathering is very short storage.

If you want to take it to the purist form, no plastic container should be used more than once or at least one season. How many have the same plastic head tank or hauling tank for years? How do you know there is not mold or bacteria growing in them. There is no end to it, so we do what we feel is "best customary and reasonable practices". We clean and do our best and so far I think we've all done pretty well, as the FDA considers maple Syrup as a very low safety threat and accepted as generally safe food product.

[afretired]

Well it tookme two years of scrubbing and letting air out to get the smell of habinaro mash that I thought I got for a bargan. my spelling might not be rit but my nose sure was. Those ground up peppers really had a bite to them.

David

[Z/MAN]

Have a couple of stainless 55 gal drums that would clean up nice and fresh and then the smell would return in a week or so. After reading this on here last year I took the advice and let them sit outside this summer without the lids on them. Smell completely gone now. Can now use them this season.

[mapleguy]

Sean, I understand what is being discussed here. I guess the point I'm trying to make is typically drums that had food stuff in them to my understanding is usually a" DO NOT REUSE " item. I'm starting to see why the FDA needs to start getting involved. Some of the conversations on this and other sites really concern me.

[SDdave]

Sean, I understand what is being discussed here. I guess the point I'm trying to make is typically drums that had food stuff in them to my understanding is usually a" DO NOT REUSE " item. I'm starting to see why the FDA needs to start getting involved. Some of the conversations on this and other sites really concern me.

I think Mapleguy is correct here as well. I have called several area food manufacturing places to try to secure some plastic barrels. Each one responded that they are single use and have to be recycled. So maybe new barrels are the way to go.

SDdave

[TonyL]

Also, it is my understanding that there is a difference in barrels labeled as food safe, vs. those labeled food grade:

http://rainsaucers.com/blog/2012/11/02/what-is-the-difference-between-food-safe-and-food-grade

[Too Tall]

The best I've found are open topped barrels that are used by a local brewery. They contained hopps. They smell something awful at first but I washed them out and let them air out for a month and now there is no smell at all.

[SeanD]

The question about cleaning food-grade barrels for sap storage and the answers that followed are all within the criteria given in the North American Syrup Producers Manual on sap storage. I think anyone making a concerted effort to stay within those guidelines should be okay.

Sean

[buckeye gold]

Here is a question that I haven't seen clarified, when considering reuse of food grade barrels. What is it about these barrels that makes them unsafe (for those who feel they are unsafe)? I see a lot of talk about what was in the plastic, but if they were originally food grade wouldn't the plastic be safe? So what changes them from safe to unsafe, how could it be unsafe chemicals in the plastic? Residual food products as a contaminate would be a bacterial or mold concern, right? So if you cleaned appropriately wouldn't that alleviate those concerns, and what it didn't wouldn't high temperature boiling kill any bacteria or molds?

so what is the concern with reusing food grade barrels, is it the plastic or what was in them?

The main reason people look to reuse is cost. when your operating very small and most likely at a loss, you really wince at spending anywhere from $50.00-100.00 for a barrel to use once and throw away. For years maple producers have made a safe product using reasonable standards. Heck if we were going to cause a mass poisoning of the population, 80% of the population of Vermont would have died off in mass during the 1950s and 60s from all the galvanized buckets and tin pans. I think we all agree that those were bad, but the point is aren't we safe using the far advanced equipment we have today? Within that I believe that reasonable reuse of food grade barrels properly cleaned for sap gathering and short term storage is safe. Like so many things in these times I sometimes wondering if we are only creating a social fear that stimulates un-necessary rules. This is what is killing this country's small businesses. I for one do not have the finances to commit to all new one use sap containers every year. If this is the requirement then I will just quit.

[SDdave]

The question about cleaning food-grade barrels for sap storage and the answers that followed are all within the criteria given in the North American Syrup Producers Manual on sap storage. I think anyone making a concerted effort to stay within those guidelines should be okay.

Sean

I agree with this.



The main reason people look to reuse is cost. when your operating very small and most likely at a loss, you really wince at spending anywhere from $50.00-100.00 for a barrel to use once and throw away. For years maple producers have made a safe product using reasonable standards. Heck if we were going to cause a mass poisoning of the population, 80% of the population of Vermont would have died off in mass during the 1950s and 60s from all the galvanized buckets and tin pans. I think we all agree that those were bad, but the point is aren't we safe using the far advanced equipment we have today? Within that I believe that reasonable reuse of food grade barrels properly cleaned for sap gathering and short term storage is safe. Like so many things in these times I sometimes wondering if we are only creating a social fear that stimulates un-necessary rules. This is what is killing this country's small businesses. I for one do not have the finances to commit to all new one use sap containers every year. If this is the requirement then I will just quit.

I agree with you as well. I don't want to come off as trying to promote buying new every year. I just wanted to give more information for those following this thread to have more info to make a good sound decision. I just wanted to state that the food manufacturing places in my area have to recycle their barrels. IMHO I think the companies aren't looking to storing these barrels to give/sell to the general public, but rather "what are we going to do with X amount of barrels each day/week?" Landfill space is a premium, recycling lowers this burden for them.

For me personally, I can not sell my syrup (trees are limited in South Dakota) it's not feasible. I make syrup for my own consumption. If I do decide to reuse barrels for short term strorage I will wash the hell out of 'em to the point where I would feel comfortable enough to feed drink and feed my family from it.

SDdave

[mapleguy]

First of all Buckeye, buying a food grade barrel is reusable. The containers I'm talking about are ones that say "not reusable". I don't know this for a fact , but have you ever heard that you should not re-use a plastic bottle that contained soda, water etc. Something about a coating thats on the inside to protect the food product from coming into contact with the plastic itself. I think we may be talking about the same thing with non re-useable drums. One last thought , I understand the cost aspect , but going cheap at the cost of consumer safety is wrong. Maybe there are other areas you can cut your costs. Keep in mind the society we live in, one little incident and the lawsuits will happen. I agree with you, has anyone really gotten ill from syrup? who knows.

[wiam]

Still kind of on the fence with this issue. But I still have concerns of what could have been stored in a container after it's "food grade" use.

[buckeye gold]

ok Mapleguy I guess I didn't catch on that you meant only the do not reuse barrels or unknown drums. I have seen those at many locations where they sell used drums...I won't touch them either. I agree that we should not compromise safety for savings, but I am confident that the food grade barrels are safe when cleaned, as long as they are one use and have not been used for anything else. You need to know your supplier. You can also buy FDA liners for some drums. I do not keep any barrels from one year to the next. I change them out every year. I ony use the barrels for sap collection and it is rare that sap is in them more than a few hours.

[happy thoughts]

Still kind of on the fence with this issue. But I still have concerns of what could have been stored in a container after it's "food grade" use.

There are times when I sit on the fence too but in this case absolutely not. Reusing a food grade container that has only contained food, no problem. But rubbing alcohol is toxic, is not a food and should never be ingested. There are also denaturing agents that may have been put in it so people aren't tempted to drink it as a vodka substitute. That can include adding disgusting flavors that may also be absorbed into the barrel. Remember that alcohol is a solvent and most plastic is porous to some degree. I personally wouldn't chance it.

To the OP, this comes up many times each year and I'm glad you asked it. Please don't take my answer as a criticism as your question is a reasonable one. :)

post edit- just realized my answer is to another posters question that came up earlier today re reusing drums that contained rubbing alcohol. Sorry OP. To your post my answer would be If the barrels are indeed food grade and never contained anything but food then use them if it's for home use and you can reasonably clean them and get the smell out. Using a food grade liner as someone else suggested is also a good idea if you can find one. I reuse bakery pails for sap collection but a large barrel that contained olives still smells. That one got turned into a rain barrel.

If for commercial use check to see if your laws allow reused containers or if they would pass inspection. I believe the FDA will be coming out with some best practices guidelines for syrup making sooner or later. I wouldn't be surprised if this is addressed then.

Just don't go by the recycling number and assume it's food grade. The recycling number has nothing to do with food grade.

[wiam]

There are times when I sit on the fence too but in this case absolutely not. Reusing a food grade container that has only contained food, no problem. But rubbing alcohol is toxic, is not a food and should never be ingested. There are also denaturing agents that may have been put in it so people aren't tempted to drink it as a vodka substitute. That can include adding disgusting flavors that may also be absorbed into the barrel. Remember that alcohol is a solvent and most plastic is porous to some degree. I personally wouldn't chance it.

To the OP, this comes up many times each year and I'm glad you asked it. Please don't take my answer as a criticism as your question is a reasonable one. :)

post edit- just realized my answer is to another posters question that came up earlier today re reusing drums that contained rubbing alcohol. Sorry OP. To your post my answer would be If the barrels are indeed food grade and never contained anything but food then use them if it's for home use and you can reasonably clean them and get the smell out. Using a food grade liner as someone else suggested is also a good idea if you can find one. I reuse bakery pails for sap collection but a large barrel that contained olives still smells. That one got turned into a rain barrel.

If for commercial use check to see if your laws allow reused containers or if they would pass inspection. I believe the FDA will be coming out with some best practices guidelines for syrup making sooner or later. I wouldn't be surprised if this is addressed then.

Just don't go by the recycling number and assume it's food grade. The recycling number has nothing to do with food grade.
I agree with what you say but my concen is that I do not know what has been in a drum when it was not mine.

[happy thoughts]

Good point wiam. :)

[DrTimPerkins]

Please understand that I'm not trying to pick on any one person here, but this particular post just summarized many of the issues related to this thread.


Here is a question that I haven't seen clarified, when considering reuse of food grade barrels. What is it about these barrels that makes them unsafe (for those who feel they are unsafe)?

I can't speak for everyone, or for any regulatory authorities, however it primarily comes down to two things. The first is public safety. It is very hard to argue with the regulators that just a little bit of contamination isn't a bad thing. It is an argument that you can never win. The second is image. We portray PURE maple syrup, and it is often held up as a "healthier" alternative to other, especially refined sugars. Do we really want to say "almost-pure" maple syrup? That probably wouldn't look real good in advertisements.


So if you cleaned appropriately wouldn't that alleviate those concerns, and what it didn't wouldn't high temperature boiling kill any bacteria or molds?

What is "cleaned appropriately"? If you don't know what was in it, then you can't tell how to clean it. We hear all the time about people reusing containers from all sorts of things....and that the smells eventually went away. If you've ever judged syrup in contests, you'll soon discover that the smells don't always go away, and frequently the smell and flavor of some of these things is in the syrup....perhaps very faint (not always)...but there. Spoiled sap will transfer an off-flavor into the syrup.....so what is getting through all that boiling? Obviously something can.


...so what is the concern with reusing food grade barrels, is it the plastic or what was in them?

It could be either, or both. It could also be what was used to clean them. Very frequently there is likely to be nothing wrong at all, but the problem is that what seems "reasonable" to use for one person may not be "reasonable" to another person. The issue with many plastics, even those used as food-grade containers, is that they are quite porous and will absorb odors and flavors, especially in some of the concentrated foods put in them.


For years maple producers have made a safe product using reasonable standards. Heck if we were going to cause a mass poisoning of the population, 80% of the population of Vermont would have died off in mass during the 1950s and 60s from all the galvanized buckets and tin pans. I think we all agree that those were bad, but the point is aren't we safe using the far advanced equipment we have today?

To use an absurd analogy, are we suggesting that not being careful is perfectly fine until we poison or kill someone? Maybe it's OK if we just harm them a little bit in a way they may not even notice.....nobody will mind. There are times that I know of when syrup had to be destroyed due to contamination that the producer at the time felt was perfectly fine.


Within that I believe that reasonable reuse of food grade barrels properly cleaned for sap gathering and short term storage is safe.

That is probably not an unreasonable thing....more importantly, you've drawn the line somewhere.....however given all the posts over the years on this topic, it is very apparent that not everyone draws that line in the same place, and some are undoubtedly not being conservative enough in terms of food safety in deciding where that line is. If an error is to be made, I guess I would prefer that we draw that line on the very conservative side, and hope that even those who do shift it towards being somewhat less conservative still fall on the right side of the safety equation. It would be very hard to say, "gee we're sorry that you got a bad batch of syrup that made you sick, but on the positive side, I did manage to save a little money on those sap barrels.

[Tom_saw]

I had a barrel that had Vanilla in it from an ice cream plant . I washed it 3 times and couldn't get the smell out . I hooked a blower up to one of the openings and in an hour the smell was gone . It needed some fresh air . Hope that helps .

[buckeye gold]

To use an absurd analogy, are we suggesting that not being careful is perfectly fine until we poison or kill someone? Maybe it's OK if we just harm them a little bit in a way they may not even notice.....nobody will mind. There are times that I know of when syrup had to be destroyed due to contamination that the producer at the time felt was perfectly fine.

Dr. Tim, I really hope you don't think i meant it was ok to harm anyone? To use your terms, I was being absurd! I guess I somehow thought people would pick up on the point we weren't always this careful or informed. Discussion is often the best primer for change and "best pratices". Who can see in the dark? Things need to be brought to light. I am glad that we finally sparked your ire enough to get you to respond, I been wondering, "why doesn't Dr.Tim put a definitive conclusion to this post"? Now I been smacked by the teacher, I'll go sit in my corner and be good.

Seriously, with all that is coming at us many of us are confused and frustrated, even if it is for good. Here recently I have wondered more than once if I should simply just quit. I fear many will in the years to come. I really am trying to be as safe as possible and I hope most are.

Oh yeah, that singling out thing. I pretty much feel like I've been hung along the Roman road!

[happy thoughts]

[QUOTE} We clean and do our best and so far I think we've all done pretty well, as the FDA considers maple Syrup as a very low safety threat and accepted as generally safe food product.[/QUOTE]

Before we all start patting ourselves on the back, the low risk FDA designation has more to do with the nature of proper density syrup than anything else. The long high temps used above the boiling point of water helps kill off organisms in the sap and the high sugar content itself acts as a preservative by drawing water out of microbial cells retarding growth and reproduction.

Of course cleanliness is still important but the real safety concern would be contamination through toxic substances introduced in equipment. Lead and zinc risks from older equipment comes to mind and in many cases those are being phased out or discouraged. Banning the reuse of plastic barrels seems like a natural progression if you think about it because there is no way to guarantee they have never contained anything but food.

[mapleguy]

If you buy a new plastic syrup drum from leader, lapierre etc. you will be fine. Although my buyer has told me in the near future those will be phased out and everything will be stainless. Don't be discouraged buckeye!

[maplestudent]

Man, just when I thought I was actually about to make a decision on something, I feel the need to re-think. But I guess that is the purpose of these discussions.....to think.

I have never sold any syrup and don't have any immediate plans to, but I do share everything I make with family and friends. But that doesn't mean I want to be less safe because I don't sell.

Have been debating getting either two 55 gal used plastic barrels (supposed to have been used for juice, will need to be cleaned) at around $20 each, or getting three new 32 gal Brute barrels at about $30 each , in order to achieve about a 100 gallon capacity. I would assume buying the Brute barrels at a retail outlet.....they wouldn't have been used once and returned. Though I sometimes wonder if that is a safe assumption to make.

Anyone have any other suggestions for 100 gal or so storage for less than say $100?

Seems like the more syrup I make, the more expensive it is to make. That is my dilemma. I enjoy the work (well, at least for a while) and enjoy the sharing......maybe one of these years it will start costing me less than it would if I just bought it from someone else.

[DrTimPerkins]

Oh yeah, that singling out thing. I pretty much feel like I've been hung along the Roman road!

Again, I did not mean to single you out and apologize if you took it that way. I think I understand where you were going with it. My post was meant simply to mean that the extremes (at either end) are where absurdity creeps in. When you start to deviate from what the middle (reasonable) course of action is then things can go wrong. Any time you either don't think at all, or have to think a lot about whether something is "reasonable" and have to start qualifying and justifying the reasons for doing something you're starting to tread on thin ice. In summary:

No thinking = bad :(
Some thinking = good :D
Too much thinking = bad :(

[happy thoughts]

Man, just when I thought I was actually about to make a decision on something, I feel the need to re-think. But I guess that is the purpose of these discussions.....to think.


Have been debating getting either two 55 gal used plastic barrels (supposed to have been used for juice, will need to be cleaned) at around $20 each, or getting three new 32 gal Brute barrels at about $30 each , in order to achieve about a 100 gallon capacity. I would assume buying the Brute barrels at a retail outlet.....they wouldn't have been used once and returned. Though I sometimes wonder if that is a safe assumption to make.

Nothing causes more heated debate (and nervous tics) here than this subject, lol. Some people use cage tanks and water buffalos meant for water storage but those are all well out of your price range. All I can do is offer my own opinion. Given the choice for home use only, I'd go with the juice containers a$$-u-me-ing that you are resaonably certain they've never contained anything but juice, that you can clean them safely and effectively enough to get the smell out and/or don't mind some added flavor in your syrup.

I would also look at the material they're made of. Food grade HDPE is the same material used for plastic syrup jugs. Emphasis is on food grade as not all HDPE is food grade. The FDA food approved Brute cans are made of LLDPE and are not recommended for wine or juice storage because of the potential for plastic flavors penetrating the product. Not sure how much that would affect short term sap storage but something to consider. If going with the brute cans make absolutely certain it is a product that is considered food safe. Not all products in that line are so rated. The dyes and mold releasers used for some products sold under the brute name are not considered food safe.

Well that's my 2 cents at least. I'm sure you'll collect some more change along the way:)

[mapleguy]

I use the polytanks from Tractor Supply, bought them new . They are used exclusively for sap and at the end of the season I use them for water to pump through my tubing. One drawback is as the weather warms there is a tendency for sap to spoil even though I wash them out religiously. Was hoping to have a decent season to buy stainless round bottom tanks, will have to wait and see.

[buckeye gold]

Dr, Tim Thanks, I hoped there was no malice and I understand, sorry I let my feelings get ahead of my mind. Maybe a PM warning me would of kept me from overreacting. I respect your work emmensely.

I do agree with you more than you may know or think. Sometimes it takes a little pot stirring to get a hard discussion going. I see some are already thinking hard on their choices.

I spent many years in aquaculture and have dealt with drug and food issues for decades. I know one thing the FDA plays hard ball if they come to play. They also understand the challenges. I worked on INADS for years and had to scrutinize every detail of my producion. What was once thought of as safe quickly became taboo. I used one key guidance in many of my management decisions: if you have to explain or justify your actions to knowledgable people you are probably wrong. Right is usually more obvious than wrong.

I can give you an example of something thought safe that turned out wrong. An industrial facility opened a waste plant high in my aquafer and even had State University and Dept of Ag statements that their biproducts were safe organic compounds. That did not mean they were not harmful. I came in one day to find thousands of fish in stress. I began franticall looking at causes. A water sample started pointing me to a cause. After a call to the facility I found they had made a large accidental discharge. Their response was, Oh these are only natural occuring elements, they are harmless. Well maybe so in context to normal occurance, but in concentrate and when applied to fish gills they are not! It actually turned into a huge court case and that company no longer exist. So guys think hard on the fine Drs comments he's trying to keep us all in business and our neighbors safe.

[BAP]

What guarantee's buy new barrels or new tubing safe to use. It's not sterilized or even cleaned before it is used after sitting in warehouse for who know's how long.

[happy thoughts]

What guarantee's buy new barrels or new tubing safe to use. It's not sterilized or even cleaned before it is used after sitting in warehouse for who know's how long.

It's not about sterility or even cleanliness but about chemical toxicity that might be transferred to food through contact. It depends on the plastic resins used for a particular container. For instance, plastics made from recycled containers that may have contained pesticides, motor oil, etc can make containers unfit for food use. Likewise, the dyes and mold releasers used with even virgin materials may make them unfit for food contact. If a manufacturer is selling an item as food safe I think you can be reasonably certain it is food safe for it's intended use at the recommended temps for the plastic. The FDA sincerely frowns on mislabeling.

[maplestudent]

Happy thoughts.....My understanding with the Brute barrels is that oxidation, due to the material being a poor vapor barrier, is what affect might affect the flavor of the contents. Given that the intention would be to have sap stored for a relatively short time, a compared to what wine or juice might be, it might not be too much of an issue.

However I was leaning toward the re-used juice barrels, which would give me more capacity for less money. I just need to find some that had blueberry juice, then I won't need to worry about flavors

[maplestudent]

Checked out the storage tanks at tractor supply. If I had a little more money, that might be a good option. That might be my priority investment item next year. Thanks

[happy thoughts]

Happy thoughts.....My understanding with the Brute barrels is that oxidation, due to the material being a poor vapor barrier, is what affect might affect the flavor of the contents. Given that the intention would be to have sap stored for a relatively short time, a compared to what wine or juice might be, it might not be too much of an issue.

However I was leaning toward the re-used juice barrels, which would give me more capacity for less money. I just need to find some that had blueberry juice, then I won't need to worry about flavors

I don't think short term storage would be a problem either but thought it worth mentioning. The Rubbermaid site itself mentions oxidation as the cause but also says plastic flavors may be transferred to wine and juices because of it. But again, short term storage probably won't matter much especially when temps are cold. If you're on a tight budget the choice is yours.

And LOL at your blueberry juice barrels. It took me a while to get that, but once I did, I spit out my coffee:)

Have a great season !

[Ski Bum]

Just picked up some 5 gallon buckets to use between trees and truck. Wanted to check and make sure that they were food grade so I went on line and found a site that explains the symbols on the bottom of the buckets. I'm sure it's on all plastic containers. The numbers 1, 2, 4 & 5 inside the triangle are food safe. It said the best for long term food storage is ( HDPE ) 2. I hope this helps someone. I believe that it helps to share ideas that make our hobby/ business safer. I'm sure that we are all out to make the best possible product for our families and/or customers. Good luck this season---- We'll be tapping soon!!

[maplestudent]

I don't think short term storage would be a problem either but thought it worth mentioning. The Rubbermaid site itself mentions oxidation as the cause but also says plastic flavors may be transferred to wine and juices because of it. But again, short term storage probably won't matter much especially when temps are cold. If you're on a tight budget the choice is yours.

And LOL at your blueberry juice barrels. It took me a while to get that, but once I did, I spit out my coffee:)

Have a great season !

I hope there wasn't anyone sitting in front of you.

And you have a great season too!

[happy thoughts]

The numbers 1, 2, 4 & 5 inside the triangle are food safe. It said the best for long term food storage is ( HDPE ) 2.

Bless you ski bum I know you're trying to be helpful but those numbers have nothing to do with being food safe. Please don't feel bad because too many people think the same thing. Not all HDPE2 is food safe. Not all brute LLDPE Brute cans are food safe. Those are just recycling numbers that indicate the material a container is made from. About all it's good for is telling us which recycling bin to throw it in.

Syrup jugs, pesticide and motor oil bottles all meet in the same recycling bin. If those are then recycled into new hdpe containers, those containers will not be food safe. Certain dyes or other chemicals used in production may make a container not safe for food contact even if virgin resins are used.. Bottom line- you need to look for more than a recycling number and make sure the manufacturer certifies that a product in the specific color you want to use is food safe.

[Ski Bum]

Thanks Happy for setting the record straight on the symbols. Thought I found something to be of use. I guess some things run deeper than they appear so I'll dig a little deeper next time. Best of tapping to you. Ski Bum