not so funny story

[Moser's Maple]

so we are going to upgrade for this coming year....ro for sure and possibly new evaporator.....anyways there are 3 of us boys and our father that are partners with our operation. after much talking and grooming we opened dad's eyes to ro technology. (he's 70 and old school maple) so we found a nice ro in vermont last weekend and we feel we are being treated very fairly by the dealer that is selling this piece. by the way he IS NOT our local dealer. now no name mentioned but there was also a saleperson that was working with the dealer we were talking with. so 1 brother was talking to dealer about ro and i was talking to salesperson about new rig. so i get my price from this guy, but then explains I should contact my local dealer to get a price ( small pond and salesperson didn't want to step on toes) I inform him we are comfortable with the 2 we are talking to and didn't want to include our local dealer. well behind my back the salesperson contacts our local dealer and he rushes right down to the sugar house **** well knowing I had to go back to work this week and it would be my father alone there. he informed my father he could do better on the price for the rig, and then he informed my father if we start using an ro if will ruin our flavor profile of our syrup, and we won't be able to make candy!!!!! ARE YOU $#@$@# ME!!!!!!:mad: Now I'm still learning about RO's but I have heard from enough people that this isn't true. by the way Dave Klish has been a great first hand resource on his experiences and I can't thank him enough. So is this dealer really this ignorant????? or he just pissed???? but anyways my father is now dead set against the ro and we have a policy that we all have to agree before a big purchase. So my questions are....... Are there really dealers out there that I know more about their equipment then they do???? Why would a maple company put up with a dealer that would obviously have no idea about his company's equipment and tell false urban legends about the equipment. Thirdly if I could start giving factual info about company's equipment, and capabilities and have individuals buy from a different dealer using my name as a referal if the maple company would pull the dealership from this individual and let me buy in on it:mrgreen: Anyways thanks for letting me get this out there, that not all dealers are created equally. To the dealer my brother is talking with......THANK YOU!!!!! you will be getting alot of business from us in the future. To the saleperson that went behind my back...... REALLY???????????? to our local dealer WHY???????????????????

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I hear you, why do they do things like that?. Mid season this year a friend went to a local dealer a found a used canner rig. The dealer and him made a deal four payments over 4 weeks and then my friend could take the unit home. Well on the second week payment he goes into the store and the guy behind the counter says no cant accept your payment need to give the first one back. My friend is like huh what are you talking about, oh we sold it to some one else the guy behind the counter says. The dealers main company is lucky I even stopped at their open house last weekend.

[maple flats]

There have been double blind taste tests done to answer the flavor guestion. RO'd sap does not lose anything except boiling time and fuel used. A flavor difference has not ever been detected.
Dave

[tuckermtn]

I have made very good candy and cream with ROed syrup. I have also won blue ribbons with ROed syrup. When I judged syrup at the PA farm show last January the best in show and 1st place syrup were both ROed syrup.

[Moser's Maple]

I'm right with you guys. I'm all for lighter syrup, and shorter boiling times. Guess I should talk to the moderators and start a whole new discussion board called..... Dealers, salespeople, and dealerships ....and I could have called my thread "not all dealers created equal" that's my biggest issue is that this dealer is ignorant to ro technology

[NH Maplemaker]

Moser's maple, Maybe what you should do is find some RO syrup and candy and some non RO-ed syrup and candy and see if Dad can tell which is which! I'm with everyone else on this subject! Have made great syrup and candy with RO. Dr Tim has great research on the subject!

[Mark]

Moser's maple, Maybe what you should do is find some RO syrup and candy and some non RO-ed syrup and candy and see if Dad can tell which is which! I'm with everyone else on this subject! Have made great syrup and candy with RO. Dr Tim has great research on the subject!
I would label the dealer a sociopath and stay as far away from him as you can.

[ennismaple]

I know several World Champions from the Royal Agricultural Winter Fair in Toronto and they RO their sap. We've won multiple first place ribbons for our syrup in the Perth Festival of the Maples and our sap is RO'd. The producers who placed ahead of our 3rd place maple butter use RO, same for those who placed ahead of us for maple sugar.

Your local dealer is just bitter and ignorant - and if I was you, he's now down one customer and probably more because I'd be telling all the other producers I know about his underhanded lies.

Send me a PM if you want my phone number if your father wants to talk to me. We had the same concerns about flavour when we bought our RO. It does not affect flavour at all and saves you so much money on fuel and time boiling that it is the single best thing you can spend money on in the sugar house.

[mapleack]

I'd gladly talk as well, I've been sugaring for 25 years plus, last two years I've made the best tasting syrup of my life, with an RO. As far as the local dealer goes I'd politely tell him he has no clue what he's talking about and furthermore will NEVER get any business from you nor a good recommendation. If that's the company you want to deal with, go to a different dealer.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I really like the idea of the blind taste test to convince dad. Not all dads are the same either and some need to be convinced by their own taste buds. Don't use two samples as he may get lucky. Put three of each out and ask him to pick out the three RO and three non.

I wouldn't bother telling that dealer anything, If he comes bye, just ask that he doesn't stop by anymore, and have a nice day... I may even consider a different company all together.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I personally would contact the head of the company, or head of sales for that company and tell him this story. They surely would not be impressed. One way to convince dad would be to get the salesman to retract his statements as he has recently been educated. What a jerk. If I were guessing it sounds like Lapierre. I have not had great experiences with that company at all.

[maple flats]

Just think of how many other potential customers he has told the same misinformation to. Does this dealer even make syrup?

[Moser's Maple]

dave you just hit it square on the head. yes this dealer has his own sugar bush, plus he offers to do tubing set ups also......but what is hard explain is the mind frame of many people in my area. Our bush is located in the county that has the most taps in NYS. with that said you woiuld think we produce the most syrup also, but we do not. most sugar makers still have the galvinize buckets that their grand fathers had. now tubing is becoming more visible, and even vacuum systems are popping up all over. I like seeing this because I know that education is finally starting to set in. Now me and our association Pesident have been working hard on educating this set in there ways producers. (by the way I'm VP of our association) So the 2 of us along with the board have been doing the classes, getting the information, and applying these new techniques, systems, etc to our bushes to show the locals how much you can yield if you get rid of those old buckets. Now the 3 things that really burn my *** are
1. The dealer saying this to my father, and I **** well know he is saying this to others that ask about RO's.
2. The salesperson from vermont that I asked to keep my local dealer out of. It takes alot of nerve to purposely go behind a customers back.
3. the conversation that I had with the association president lastnight. The dealer contacted the president, and the president informed me that after talking with the dealer, and learning more "RO facts" that if we purchase a RO we will be committing flavor suicide.

Now on the good side...... The dealer that we are working with....He is a great guy, young, ambitious, and knows his ****! Plus more than willing to help set up RO when we purchase (yes I said WHEN we purchase), give us tips on different tubing arrangements, and has said numerous times if he doesn't know the answer he won't try to blow smoke up our ***, but will find out the CORRECT answer. When we get all arrangements with this dealer, and we have his permission I will happily give his name and contact information for everybody that may be looking for a good honest dealer like we ourselves were.
So now I'm sitting here typing, getting excited already for next season, can't wait to seal the deal on a RO that I am positive that will improve our lives in the sugar house vastly, and when we make a great quality syrup next year, with great taste, and we still make candy that is winning awards, I can't wait to sit back and:lol::lol:, and start really educating locals on what a RO can do for them

[Moser's Maple]

Update on our RO endever......
Glad to let you know we wrote the check out, and took delivery today for a Lapierre turbo 2000 series 600 gph RO. Dad is still very unsure about the purchase especially when the dealer from another area was going over the controls of the RO and was explaining to us that he will be back for our first boil next year and that the instruction manual will be our best friend for the first few boilings. it also didn't help when dad heard form another source other than his kids that we are going to want storage for 500 gallons of permeate. we also discovered that our current head tank may be too big for concentrate......which means we'll be able to leave that tank as our raw sap tank, but may need to purchase a small tank for the concentrate. Only question I have is that the dealer explained that the 30 gallon wash tank is fine without a heater, and the unit will only take 2 hours of recurculating the wash water to bring it to 115 which is the shut down for the unit. he also explained we don't have to worry about rinsing that night but can do it the next day. I fully trust him, but was wndering with many of you more experienced with RO's if this is a good practice, or should we be purchasing a heater for the wash tank. Anyways we are crossing our fingers that we are going to be satisfied with the unit, and starting to fully realize how much this is going to change our sugar house routine.

[maplwrks]

Congratulations on your new Lapierre! Most all of the pointers that your dealer told you were right on.The only thing I disagree with is the need for a heating element in your wash tank. I really like to give my RO a quick hot water rinse when the unit has run for a while or I am concentrating really high. The hot water really cuts the crap on the membrane surface bringing it back to full flow in 20 mins or so. It will take a little longer than 2 hrs to heat your water to 115 degrees without a heating element. It shouldn't matter though as this can happen while you are sleeping. I get up in the morning and put my RO through a cold water rinse, and it's ready when I get home from work.

[mapleack]

I second what Mike said. I ran the first year without a heater in the wash tank, and didn't like it. The RO soap doesn't want to dissolve when permeate is cold, has to be hot. I start wash cycle and go home for the night. Next morning I start the rinse and go to work. When I come from work it's ready to concentrate again. You're going to want more than a 500 gal permeate tank, or two separate tanks that size. You can never have too much permeate. For my 250 ro i've got a 400 gal perm tank and a 200, valved to use either or both. As far as head tank goes, yes you can go small, or stay larger. I still have a 300 gal head tank, and only have 30 gal of concentrate in it usually. But, on open house days, boiling out the rig, etc , there are occasions when it's convenient to still have a big head tank. Good luck!

[Russell Lampron]

Congratulations on your RO purchase, you made a good choice. Wait a minute you made a BAD choice! You need to send that thing to me before you get caught up in that trap of tapping more trees to feed the RO because you have too much free time now. I agree with what Mike and Andy have said. I start my wash cycle when I leave the sugar house for the night and rinse the next day. I don't use a wash tank heater figuring that even though the wash temp isn't in the ideal range at first it is still cleaning while it is heating. I am thinking of getting one in the future though so that I can do a hot water rinse before the wash cycle like Mike does. I hope the new Lapierre owners manual is better than the one I got with mine. I learned most of what I know from this site.