Trees with low sugar content. Is there such a thing as a bad bush?

[madmapler]

Hello, I'm relatively new to this and I need a little guidance. I'm looking at investing in some pipeline on a nearby farm and in the course of negotiations, I found out from another farmer in the area that the place where I'm considering was tapped a long time ago but was given up on because of low sugar content. I'm just trying to get some ideas as to whether or not this could be true before I take it to the landowner. The hillside really appears to be perfect in every way as far as I can see(all 18" to 28" sugar maples ,good slope, great sun exposure) and I know that another guy also has his eye on it if I dont act. I've never heard of this happening around here except for with some riverside trees but this hillside is dry. Are there situations or conditions where an orchard of trees consistantly test low or is it most likely that it could have been a bad year or two. The farmer said that they tested around 1.5 but thats all he remembered. I would greatly appreciate anyones honest input. Thanks.

[bairdswift]

I have the same question about the bush I tap. Sounds about the same all the way around. Small trees but good slope. A history of low sugar from other people that have taped this bush. Bush sat unused for 5 years until I started useing it in the last 2 years. Sugar was 1.7% to start and went down to .5%. I do know there are a lot of pine tree all around the maples and I feel this is playing a big part. Would it work to put line or some fertalizer to help lower the PH? On this bush I have 300 taps on single tap tree on what I think is about 4 ac. The trees have a lot of trunk and not much top. I sold all the sap of this bush this season and made 1/3 of my money back I spent on the install not including my time. I think a 3 year return is still not to bad. The trees ran really well as far as volume just super low sugar. I bet I dumped 1000 gal of 1% or less sap. Sad stuff but I could not truck it for what I was being paid.

[Michael Greer]

It makes sense to me that a bush that was too tightly packed with skinny trees, of evergreens might be lower on sugar content. It's the leaves that manufacture the sugar, and a tree with a tiny top just can't do any more than it does. A very little bit of thinning would have dramatic results within a couple of years. Sometimes just a cleaning out of damaged and sickly trees will be enough to improve a stand considerably. This is true whether you're growing a sugar bush or a stand of saw logs.

[red maples]

yeah you can have low sugar in a sugarbush, for exactly the reasons previously stated. clearing out will definitely improove the health of the trees. this is where the RO comes into play. the other question is was it on vacuum? if it was on vacuum you will get way more sap but alot less sugar but the amount of sap will far outway the lower sugar. and you can average 1.5 sugar throughout the season it may get as high as 2.5% but can get as low as .5% at the end of the season or during a relatively warm spell without a freeze. Also he said it was tapped a long time ago how big were the trees in the stand along time ago if the trees are now 18-28".

If you have an RO or vacuum I would tap it!!! well I would tap it anyway.

[madmapler]

I'm sure there was no vacuum used back then. Guys around here are just getting on board with that. The hillside has been logged over the years and I would say from hunting it that its always been a mature forest. The one good thing about that is it may be more open now than way back then. The guy is also interested in having his woods cleaned up. I will also be running my lines for vacuum with an RO in the near future I hope. Sounds like I should probably do this. Thanks to all for getting back so soon. I have to meet with him today. I'm interested in hearing more about this if anyone has more to add.

[DrTimPerkins]

Lots of factors affect sap sugar content:
- Genetics. Not a lot you can do about that in the short-term. In the intermediate to long-term, test and cull trees that are lower in SSC relative to neighbors.
- Growth. Fast growing trees produce more wood and produce more sugar. Trees need room to grow, and the crowns need good light exposure. Thinning (if needed) is the first thing to consider before tubing (or retubing) a stand of trees.
- Nutrition. Fertilizing and liming can improve SSC and sap yield, but ONLY if the soils are low in some nutrient, or if the pH is too low to provide optimal nutrition. Otherwise it is a waste of time and money. Thin first, consider fertilizing/liming later if indicated.

[bairdswift]

How should my soil test to best suit maple trees? Can I go wrong putting line down, how much do you put down?

[DrTimPerkins]

How should my soil test to best suit maple trees? Can I go wrong putting line down, how much do you put down?

Send a sample of your soil to the UVM Soil Testing lab http://www.uvm.edu/pss/ag_testing/ (follow the instructions on how to sample it). Ask for the recommendation for maple production.

You really need to take care with liming and fertilizing in forests. If it isn't needed, it won't help and is a waste of money. Too much lime (or any fertilizer) can be detrimental. In general, you want to go lightly with any application. If you haven't seen it, go to http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/?Page=publications.html and download the "Fertilizing a Sugarbush" brochure.

[red maples]

It all depends on the soil the calcium levels seem to be the important thing here. (which you would get from lime) we had a presenter out assoc. meeting this year and he was talking about the problem with soil and the acid rains have depleted the calcium levels badly in the last 50+ years. He did highly recommend getting the soil tested in order to see if you need it first and if you do to find out the recommended amount you need to spread per acre. he also said your woods need to be cleaned up for a good aplication and proper spreading of the lime which for the amount that needs to get spread( talking tons here!!!) a tractor and spreader would be needed.

[madmapler]

Thankyou all for your help.