Quart decanter foil flip-top caps

[jfroe939]

Hi,

I'm having problems with getting these caps to seal. I probably get a 80% seal rate. I'm assuming they're not sealing because when I put the lids on and put them on their side I see the drips of syrup laying below them. I'm talking about the plastic ones that kinda resemble a ketchup bottle's with the foil that you pull off to pop/break the seal just so I'm being clear. Standard lid in the industry. I also have the plastic foil caps without a flip-top and these tend to seal better than the flip-tops for some reason. My questions are 1) has anyone else noticed the fliptops don't seal as well, 2) just because I get an initial drip of syrup after puttng the lid on (say within 2 minutes of putting the lid on) is it possible/common for the lid to still seal once it drips a little syrup at the beginning-... in other words, when I see that initial drip of syrup is it most likely a bad seal and not worth waiting for it to "possibly" seal by the time it cools? What type of lids/caps are you guys using that work nearly 100% of the time on glass quart decanters? I also have the metal caps with that plastic-like seal "stuff" that warms and sets that I tried and seem to work very well. Just looking for opinions and ideas because I'm just about through with the foil flip-tops. And just looking at the flips vs. the non-flips, I can't see any material physical reason why they wouldn't seal as well. Bad batch? Thanks. Also... I don't make a whole lot of syrup so I'm not a bottling pro... but someone had once told me that the foil tops seal better when right before you put the lid on, you rub a tinge of syrup all the way around the top of the container... is that good or bad advice or is that even the standard procedure and I dont know it?

[jmayerl]

Never once had a problem with either type sealing. I now exclusively use the flip style. Only had a few gallon crushon jugs not want to seal at one time. Make sure to bottle around 185 degrees, the rims should be free of syrup, screw on lid and then invert bottle for about 20 seconds, good to go.

[Cake O' Maple]

but someone had once told me that the foil tops seal better when right before you put the lid on, you rub a tinge of syrup all the way around the top of the container... is that good or bad advice or is that even the standard procedure and I dont know it?

Bad advice. Rims should be clean, as jmayerl said.

I would bet that's your problem right there.

[jfroe939]

Tonight I made sure everything was super clean and I put the lid on at 188. I canned 4 glass decanters tonight with fliptops. I put the lid on (didn't turn too tight), inverted for 30 seconds and raised them back up to standing position. I watched them like a hawk over the following half hour. I could actually hear the little hiss of it sucking air as it cooled. And of course when I re-tipped it on its side for visual evidence I could see the classic little trail of bubbles shooting over. 3 of 4 didn't seal. This is getting frustrating.

Now suppose I left them upright/normal and didn't inspect them for hissing/sucking air (aka bad seal) ... how would I know it didn't seal? As it cools, the syrup would thicken at room temperature to the point where it wouldn't leak any syrup due to density if I were to put it on its side again. Not saying yours aren't, but if you followed the same procedure as above, how would you know if yours were sealing short of waiting weeks for mold to show up? I just can't believe no one else is having problems because they are kinda tricky little outfits to start with. They're simple in concept, but the seal has to hold 100% all the way around not 98% all the way around. I just can't figure out why mine are so bad to the point where more than 2% are having sealing problems whereas no one else seems to have issues. I do have some of those plastisol caps which have that ring that kinda melts/forms around the glass and those are sealing really well for me so I pretty much have to stick with them even though they look ancient compared to a nice fliptop. The only thing I might do different is instead of filling an empty glass decanter with hot syrup, I give the whole decanter (with syrup already in) a water bath so I don't know if the end of the glass is getting too hot and needs to be cooler at capping though you'd think it gets hot from inverting anyway. Any thoughts?

[Cake O' Maple]

I understand your frustration and your thought about thicker, room-temp syrup possibly not leaking, but canning guidelines say to let the jar alone for 24 hours to promote a good seal. I wonder if your testing is disrupting the seal.

No, I don't know how you'd be sure it had sealed.

[happy thoughts]

My question would be what does the foil liner look like on a bottles you consider sealed? Have you opened one and does the foil liner actually seal as you described? If not, I would call your bottle and cap supplier. Ask if the foil liners are induction seals as I suspect they are. If so, getting the liner to adhere to the bottle requires special equipment. The usual purpose of these foil seals is to provide tamper evidence and to help prevent leaking. These seals are usually meant for use on plastic containers, not glass.

http://www.sks-bottle.com/InductionSealing.html

[mrnorthshore]

We had the same problem last year, filled 140 gallons in quart and pint glass jars, W/the flip top (from andersons) weatherchem.com flip tops. We had the same problem and found out after about 50 gallons that if we turned them upside down and put them on there caps and back into the box they worked great. I dont know if this is the right way or not but it works.

[markcasper]

Guess I am a day late checking about these STUPID caps. What a waste!! Thought maybe after 4 years I better copy cat the competition and move up in the world, (I mean backwards) Bottled 60 gallons and after my daughter said "Dad, whats all these little bubbles going backwards up into the jar?" Long story short....about 3.5 in 10 failed and did not seal. So dang disgusted!!! Went through this crap 20 plus years ago, caps with the cardboard filmed liners, case after case, after case molded. Why so stupid I am? Never again, some things need to be left alone, the good old metal caps with plastisol liner! Thankfully my 11 year old daughter ordered me to cease using them at once. Someone smarter than an 11 year old needs to be doing their homework in my opinion. This is not rocket science.

[Mark]

With those flip tops don't lay them down or the glue will run. I fill them and leave them standing and they will seal. That is what the big packers do.

[Super Sapper]

I have normally had good success with the flip top caps but have had 3 quarts mold in one case but not any others. I have gotten caps from 2 separate dealers and am wondering if i got induction ones from one of them. The 2 I found today were not sealed at all.

[kevinsnieder]

I use the induction caps and find they work quite well. For the standard caps I heat it at 1200 watts for 0.8 seconds and for the flip top I heat it at 1200 watts for 1.3 seconds. It has helped us with out mold issues quite a bit


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[markcasper]

I use the induction caps and find they work quite well. For the standard caps I heat it at 1200 watts for 0.8 seconds and for the flip top I heat it at 1200 watts for 1.3 seconds. It has helped us with out mold issues quite a bit


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI have no idea what you are talking about..... syrup is meant to be bottled once and only once.

[kevinsnieder]

Ok. With the foil caps you need to purchase an induction sealer. Do you have one of those?


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[Super Sapper]

Induction style caps use a different foil to seal with the sealer. One of the dealers got these by mistake a few years ago in central Wisconsin and people had problems. Maybe this happened again.

[kevinsnieder]

We switched to the induction caps that you heat up with the induction sealer unit. It pretty much eliminated our mold problems in the plastic jugs. The unit itself was around $200 and the lids were roughly 3 cents more but well worth it in my opinion. The seals can be a pain in the *** to get off sometimes.

[Super Sapper]

My problems was the induction style caps. I am not sure where they came from as I have gotten caps from 3 different dealers. If you flip open the cap there will be black lettering on the seal. All of the ones with the orange lettering have sealed well. I have a few left that did not mold but if you unscrew the cap the whole seal comes with it.