Bubblemaster 1.0!

[Russell Lampron]

Here are some pics of the air injection system that I built for my evaporator. The Bubblemaster 1.0! Before the Bubblemaster 1.0 all I was making was grade B and darker syrup. On March 19 I boiled for the first time with the Bubblemaster and since then right up to the very end I continued to make grade A syrup. That was close to half of my crop this season.

77167715771777187719

[cadocter]

Wow that's impressive! What type of blower did you use and where did you locate it at?

[Russell Lampron]

I used a new shop vac and put it outside on the platform next to my feed tank. I used 1 1/2" PVC pipe to connect it to the Bubblemaster.

[cadocter]

I never would have thought of that. Nicely done!

[maplesyrupstove]

772077217722 2 Air Injector Filter Pumps on the outside of sap house.Air Injector pipes in sap evaporator and air injector pipes in finish evaporator.

[red maples]

What do you think would be the optimum CFM required? I wanna see if I can get a little squirrel cage blower and make a manifold for it. so is that 1 inch pipe that the 3/8 pipe is conected to? if that is 3/8 tubing?

and its hard to see how did you connect the smaller tubbing onto the larger pipe? I am really gonna do this for next year as well. See how it goes!!!

[wiam]

What do you think would be the optimum CFM required? I wanna see if I can get a little squirrel cage blower and make a manifold for it. so is that 1 inch pipe that the 3/8 pipe is conected to? if that is 3/8 tubing?

and its hard to see how did you connect the smaller tubbing onto the larger pipe? I am really gonna do this for next year as well. See how it goes!!!

I think you will need a radial blower (like a shop vac) I do not believe a squirrel cage would have enough pressure.

[b116757]

You are blowing air into the hot liquid evaporating? Never herd of this before what is the purpose of this you allude to the fact that it produces a lighter grade of syrup why would that be this is very interesting post.

[PerryW]

You are blowing air into the hot liquid evaporating? Never herd of this before what is the purpose of this you allude to the fact that it produces a lighter grade of syrup why would that be this is very interesting post.

Yes, there have been some testing and pictures posted on using this method. There was a huge improvement in syrup grade using the air injection.

[Russell Lampron]

Brad the manifolds are 1" pipe and the tubes are soft copper. I soldered compression fittings into the manifolds to attach the tubes with. The volume of air with a squirrel cage will probably be enough but it may not make enough pressure to push the bubbles up through the sap in the flue pan.

b116757 the air bubbles are pointed to the bottom of the pans to stir / force the nitre up so that it doesn't sit there and burn. This is a big problem for producers that concentrate their sap to higher percentages with their RO's. The sap in my flue pan was the color of syrup or darker before it even come into the front pan. I concentrate up to 18% before I boil.

[SSFLLC]

Russ do you think a air pump for a large fish tank would be enough air and filter through the charcoal and water same as fish tank? I know you said that you had it cut way back.Also 1/2 inch tubing instead of the 1 inch copper and 1/4 inch air tubes instead of the 3/8. Your thoughts would help with many that are going to go this route for next year. Thanks Keith

[Dennis H.]

Very neat setup up there Russ.
Need more pics. How did the pan bottoms look after boiling for awhile? Were they cleaner than with out the bubblemaster 1.0?
How far off the pan bottom did you place the bubble tubes?

[Mark]

The biggest benefit of the air bubblers for me was that I no longer use any defoamer.

[red maples]

yes I did read that you barely need defoamer and it knocks the amount of niter way down because you are really boiling at a stightly lower temperature and the agitation causes less niter. and cleaner pans as well. the article I read said its good for ROed concentrate as well as raw sap too. because with the raw sap it will spend ALOT more time in the pans developing color sugar flavor more niter and more chance to get carmelized sugars to form. creating darker syrup.

[Russell Lampron]

Russ do you think a air pump for a large fish tank would be enough air and filter through the charcoal and water same as fish tank? I know you said that you had it cut way back.Also 1/2 inch tubing instead of the 1 inch copper and 1/4 inch air tubes instead of the 3/8. Your thoughts would help with many that are going to go this route for next year. Thanks Keith

I don't know if 1/2" pipe and 1/4" tubes would be too restrictive to get air all of the way to the end. I'm also not sure if the aquarium pump will move a large enough volume of air for it to work. The only way to know would be to try it.


Very neat setup up there Russ.
Need more pics. How did the pan bottoms look after boiling for awhile? Were they cleaner than with out the bubblemaster 1.0?
How far off the pan bottom did you place the bubble tubes?

The bottom of the front pan looks like I just cleaned it with the exception of the area that didn't have holes in the tubes. On the draw off channels the holes start 12" away from the thermometer stem. I haven't removed the steam hood to clean the flue pan yet so I can't see the bottom of that. The sight tube is a lot cleaner than it used to be. The tubes are 1/2" off of the botom of the pan.


The biggest benefit of the air bubblers for me was that I no longer use any defoamer.

I still use some defoamer especially with the late season sap. The amount that I use is drastically reduced though.


yes I did read that you barely need defoamer and it knocks the amount of niter way down because you are really boiling at a stightly lower temperature and the agitation causes less niter. and cleaner pans as well. the article I read said its good for ROed concentrate as well as raw sap too. because with the raw sap it will spend ALOT more time in the pans developing color sugar flavor more niter and more chance to get carmelized sugars to form. creating darker syrup.

I must not have read that paper. I haven't read anything yet that mentions raw sap but I can see that it could help there too.

[Amber Gold]

Brad, please post a link to the paper.

Why the reduced defoamer use?

I understand that liquids will evaporate at lower temperartures if agitated, but if the air's cooling the sap down enough to boil at a lower temperature, your thermometer in the syrup pan wouldn't work properly.

[Gary R]

Here's some reading for you guys.

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/air_injection.pdf

[802maple]

Seems like some copyright infringements of a Lincoln, VT. R and D guy and patent infringement on a Buxton, Me. manufacturer. LOL

[Mark]

I notice lighter syrup at the beginning of the season. Last year most of the syrup I made was grade B even with the bubblers, probably caused by the warm weather we had and they did not save me on that. I don't see a decrease in niter and have to change the syrup pan every 4 hours. One thing that is different is absolutely no defoamer is needed.
I am burning woodchips and not oil so I have a little slower boiling rate and maybe the reason for not needing some defoamer. I added a third syrup pan to increase the flat pan area which probably increases the flavor and darkens it a bit.
At the end of the season when I have a problem getting the syrup through the press I will then use some defoamer but that syrup goes into the drum unfiltered and sold for whatever I get.

We keep tasting the syrup to see if we can detect a change but can't, if we did we would take them out and go the organic defoamer route. Just don't want to put chemicals in the syrup.

[Russell Lampron]

Brad, please post a link to the paper.

Why the reduced defoamer use?

I understand that liquids will evaporate at lower temperartures if agitated, but if the air's cooling the sap down enough to boil at a lower temperature, your thermometer in the syrup pan wouldn't work properly.

You just gotta make sure that the bubbles are 12" or more away from the thermometer stem and you won't have a problem. I've only got holes in the last 6" of the tubes in the draw off channels.

[Russell Lampron]

Seems like some copyright infringements of a Lincoln, VT. R and D guy and patent infringement on a Buxton, Me. manufacturer. LOL

Would that R & D guy from Lincoln VT be you? I worked closely with the Buxton ME manufacturer when I built mine. My design is slightly different than his but the difference in mine was his suggestion. As far as copyright infringement goes does anybody else call theirs a Bubblemaster?

[802maple]

I guess you got me there. LOL

[mapleack]

Do you guys have a rough formula to figure how many cfm you need in a blower for a bubbler?

[Russell Lampron]

Do you guys have a rough formula to figure how many cfm you need in a blower for a bubbler?

I didn't use a formula. I just bought a small 6 gallon shop vac and it moves more than enough air for the bubbler that I built. A friend of mine used the same vacuum when he built one for his 3x8 evaporator.

[802maple]

This the blower that is used in the manufactured bubblers, Ametek 116472-13 Blower / Vacuum Motor 4M937

[Mark]

This the blower that is used in the manufactured bubblers, Ametek 116472-13 Blower / Vacuum Motor 4M937

Thanks Jerry, I wanted to buy a spare blower but have not yet figured out what it is. I will order one online today.

[802maple]

Mark I would double check yours before ordering, because there has been some made with different blowers, The one I put up is the most used though.

[Mark]

Mine has a 3 stage and the one you listed was a 2 stage. I found the right one, I was comparing the pictures with mine and noticed a difference. Thanks again.

[Greyfox]

Russ, one interesting variable is hot-air versus cold-air injection. It seems to me that the air injection does two things; 1) agitate the syrup and 2) cool the bottom of the pan. I'm wondering which variable is the most critical. I'm just guessing, but to me it seems that injecting hot air, drawn from a plenum around the stack for example, would do the agitation just as well AND might increase the boil rate by increasing the temp significantly since the stack temp is probably at or over 400 degrees. Perhaps this would increase the evaporation rate enough to keep the syrup from carmelizing and darkening. My fear is that cold air injection might have the negative effect of lengthening the boil-time over that of hot air. I haven't read-up on it, I'm just speculating. (more things to try...more things to spend money on....it never ends.).

Doc

[802maple]

I am not going to say that warm air won't increase the boil because i don't know, but I do know that cold air doesn't decrease the boil. Because of the constant agitation actually it increases the boil. This technology is not new as the Steamaway, Piggy back and CDL steam pan do the same thing and they evaporate sap even though they never come to a true boil as they never get over 195 to 200 degrees. In a woodfired unit I have seen up to 15% increased boil due to the bubbler. Typically because of the constant heat a oil fired evaporator doesn't show as much of an increase, especially if it is a hard boiling unit.

[heus]

Russ when you soldered the compression fittings to the 1" tube did you simply drill a hole first the size of the fitting? Also, how big are the actual air holes, and do they point straight down or at alternating angles?

[Russell Lampron]

Russ when you soldered the compression fittings to the 1" tube did you simply drill a hole first the size of the fitting? Also, how big are the actual air holes, and do they point straight down or at alternating angles?

I drilled holes in the 1" pipes to put the compression fittings into then I soldered them in place. The holes in the tubes are 1/16" and point straight down.

[Russell Lampron]

Russ, one interesting variable is hot-air versus cold-air injection. It seems to me that the air injection does two things; 1) agitate the syrup and 2) cool the bottom of the pan. I'm wondering which variable is the most critical. I'm just guessing, but to me it seems that injecting hot air, drawn from a plenum around the stack for example, would do the agitation just as well AND might increase the boil rate by increasing the temp significantly since the stack temp is probably at or over 400 degrees. Perhaps this would increase the evaporation rate enough to keep the syrup from carmelizing and darkening. My fear is that cold air injection might have the negative effect of lengthening the boil-time over that of hot air. I haven't read-up on it, I'm just speculating. (more things to try...more things to spend money on....it never ends.).

Doc

Doc, you pose an interesting variable and my thought is that I want the cold air to slow down the caramelization process. The cold air doesn't seem to have a negative effect on the evaporation rate of my evaporator. If anything it is the same or better. With the amounts of sap that I got in a run this season I rarely boiled for more than an hour and a half at a time which made it hard to put a number on the evap rate. It was close to 40gph before and after the Bubblemaster.

[802maple]

Russ, i am trying to remember, are you wood or oil fired?

[Russell Lampron]

Russ, i am trying to remember, are you wood or oil fired?

Jerry, my evaporator is wood fired.

[moeh1]

this sounds like a great thing for the birch guys as well. I keep eyeballing my few birch trees as I drive by them....
thanks for sharing - another dang thing I've got to think about making.

[relseek]

Just curious as to whether you had to change the depth at which you run your pans to compensate for the extra bubbles? (so to not scorch pan) What sap depth do you run ?

[Russell Lampron]

I didn't change the sap depths in my pans. I run 1" in my front pan and just cover the feed pipes in the flue pan.

[Uncle Tucker]

Has anyone tried this in just the front pan? This is the only pan I could put this in, and I like to make light syrup. Im wondering if it would be worth it.

[Russell Lampron]

Has anyone tried this in just the front pan? This is the only pan I could put this in, and I like to make light syrup. Im wondering if it would be worth it.

I made bubblers for both of my pans. The guys that only put them in one pan put them in the flue pan. You may or may not notice any difference doing the front pan only. My thought is that it won't make much difference.

[AGR1093]

Has anyone tried this in just the front pan? This is the only pan I could put this in, and I like to make light syrup. Im wondering if it would be worth it.

Tucker - there is a guy in Webster over by the dam (they call him Buddha) that has a bubbler in his front pan only. He says the main reason he uses it is to keep the build up of sugar sand and niter off the pan bottoms and side. Not sure about you, but the stuff that really sticks on the pan that is almost impossible to scrub off is usually only in my syrup pan. The flue pan seems to clean up easier.

[philkasza]

We have a 5x12 ft oil fired evap. with a 4 ft syrup pan. We make almost all Light Amber except for the very end of the season, we ro up to 10%. So the question I had was, I don't want to make much lighter syrup but we have had horible trouble with niter build-up in the syrup pan only. So would the bubbler take care of the niter and some how keep the color the same? Samuel

[red maples]

russ forgot to ask, what size shop vac did you buy for it? you might have said but its easier to ask again :)

[Russell Lampron]

russ forgot to ask, what size shop vac did you buy for it? you might have said but its easier to ask again :)

I bought a 6 gallon shop vac from Lowes. It was only $36!

[Russell Lampron]

Just thought I would revive this thread for anyone thinking about building an air injector.

[jmp]

Very cool idea. And like others have said. Now I have yet one more thing to tinker with. Gotta love it! :)

[jmp]

Ok I just read the article: (http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/air_injection.pdf) referenced below and am I missing something or is the overall theme of the paper that air injection results in less and/or off flavors in the syrup?

[Russell Lampron]

Ok I just read the article: (http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/air_injection.pdf) referenced below and am I missing something or is the overall theme of the paper that air injection results in less and/or off flavors in the syrup?

The article is basically saying that the color and flavor are generally lighter because of the lower cooking temperature. In my own evaporator I have noticed that while the color is lighter the syrup flavor is still there. I haven't made a lot of light syrup with mine. All of this seasons syrup has been medium and it taste like medium too. Even the first boil which I thought wouldn't have much if any flavor.

[jmp]

Glad to hear that your flavor profile has not changed. Thanks for the response Russell.

[heus]

Russ maybe I missed it but do you have an air filter or do you just used the shop vac as a filter?

[Russell Lampron]

I use the filter that is in the shop vac. I bought the shop vac brand new and it's only used for the bubblemaster.

[heus]

Russ another question. How do you keep the tubes up off the bottom of the pan? I'm really looking into making one of these for my flue pan next year.

[Sugarmaker]

Russ,
Yes this is a good thread. I am more interested in keeping the tough dark brown niter build up off the front pan than making light syrup. No one wants light syrup anymore! Not sure why we are trying so hard to make it?:) That will change again in two generations when the new grading system has been set in kids minds they will long for the "golden delicate" maple syrup!
Anyway I wonder if I could branch off of my blower for the steam away, it is very close to where you have your blower connection to the back pan. Come down into the front pan with a smaller manifold and throttle valve and tubes. I have to get under the back of my front hood.
You mentioned about not having bubbler holes near the draw off? I would like to get as close as possible. I would like to have the front pan with minimal niter build up that would be awesome.
Lighter syrup would just be a bonus.
Regards,
Chris

[Russell Lampron]

Russ another question. How do you keep the tubes up off the bottom of the pan? I'm really looking into making one of these for my flue pan next year.

I put the bend in the tube at the manifold end so that it holds the tube a 1/2" off of the bottom of the pan. On the other end I crimped and soldered the end of the tube and bent it down to hold the tube off of the bottom.


Russ,
Yes this is a good thread. I am more interested in keeping the tough dark brown niter build up off the front pan than making light syrup. No one wants light syrup anymore! Not sure why we are trying so hard to make it?:) That will change again in two generations when the new grading system has been set in kids minds they will long for the "golden delicate" maple syrup!
Anyway I wonder if I could branch off of my blower for the steam away, it is very close to where you have your blower connection to the back pan. Come down into the front pan with a smaller manifold and throttle valve and tubes. I have to get under the back of my front hood.
You mentioned about not having bubbler holes near the draw off? I would like to get as close as possible. I would like to have the front pan with minimal niter build up that would be awesome.
Lighter syrup would just be a bonus.
Regards,
Chris

The blower for the steamaway should work for you. I was trying to figure out a way to use some of the air off of my blower for the evaporator but filtering it was too much of a challenge in the amount of time that I had to get the Bubblemaster built. You're still going to get some nitre build up on the pan surfaces that aren't directly under the bubbler tubes. The holes in the tubes need to be about a foot away from your thermometer stem so that the cold air doesn't affect the reading.

[HHM-07]

I use the filter that is in the shop vac. I bought the shop vac brand new and it's only used for the bubblemaster.

Russ Do you put a single pipe in the center of the sections in the front pans? how do you keep it one inch off the bottom

[Russell Lampron]

Russ Do you put a single pipe in the center of the sections in the front pans? how do you keep it one inch off the bottom

Hi Dick, I run 2 tubes in each channel of the front pan. The manifold rest on top of the pan dividers and the tubes are bent so that they are a 1/2" off of the bottom of the pan at that end. On the end of the tubes I crimped them and bent them down at a 90* angle so that ends are held a 1/2" off of the bottom.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Hi Russ! A little more description of the manifold. The threaded end of the 3/8" compression fitting is soldered into a hole drilled in the 1" pipe? Is this a difficult soldering job? Thanks, Bruce

[OldManMaple]

10361As fittings are expensive, I drilled the manifold and soldered the 1/2" pipe directly into it. Also I soldered 3/8" across the bottom to space up it off of the pan.

[Russell Lampron]

Hi Russ! A little more description of the manifold. The threaded end of the 3/8" compression fitting is soldered into a hole drilled in the 1" pipe? Is this a difficult soldering job? Thanks, Bruce

Hi Bruce, Drilling the holes in the manifold for the fittings was the hardest part. If they are too egg shaped it is difficult to fill the hole with solder. The soldering itself is fairly easy. Making it so that the tubes are removable makes it easier to put the tubes into the pan and then attach them to the manifold. If the tubes and manifold were all soldered together I wouldn't be able to get it into my flue pan.

[HHM-07]

When you make one of these bubblers is it ok if the pipe touches the pan on the sides of the flues??

Thanks Dick

[Russell Lampron]

When you make one of these bubblers is it ok if the pipe touches the pan on the sides of the flues??

Thanks Dick

Because of bends in the pipe that are impossible to make perfectly straight it is going to happen. Mine touch the sides of the pan and flues in places.

[ponderingjunkman]

With a drop in the amount of sand on the bottom of the pan, do you notice more when filtering? Has filtering become more difficult?

[Russell Lampron]

Yes there is more sand but I haven't had a problem filtering it. The press papers need to be changed more often at the end of the season when there is more bacteria. I can usually get all of my syrup for the boiling session through the press without changing papers. I normally make 15 gallons at a time or less.

[ponderingjunkman]

Filtering seems much higher easier than cleaning the pan! Having had the pan scorch from sand buildup before, I must try this! Thanks!

[lew]

I am considering building a bubbler on a 5x10 max flu with the 11 inch deep flues. Any thoughts on what size blower to use? Or how to size the blower?

[Russell Lampron]

I'm not sure if there is a method to figure out what size blower that you would need but the ones on the factory made units aren't very big. I bought the smallest shop vac that they had at Lowes. I think that that would be big enough because I have to use a valve to control the air to my bubblers and they aren't opened very much. All you need is enough air volume to keep the tubes filled and enough pressure to push the air up through the sap.

[Mark]

I am considering building a bubbler on a 5x10 max flu with the 11 inch deep flues. Any thoughts on what size blower to use? Or how to size the blower? Use a blower from a built in vacuum system that would be installed in a house. Be careful with a bubbler in deep flues, pump too much air down the deep flues you may get temporary hot spots that will cause expansion then contraction when the sap hits the hot spot. I have heard of welds cracking in deep flues with bubblers.

[lakeview maple]

Great thread , I get the idea for the front pans, mine are cross flow and there are only 2 per pan so it will be a pretty simple build, what Im wondering about is my flue pan? Its a 6 ft flue with 7 inch flues , do I want the bubbler to run the full length of each flue? Thanks again for a great thread.

[Russell Lampron]

Great thread , I get the idea for the front pans, mine are cross flow and there are only 2 per pan so it will be a pretty simple build, what Im wondering about is my flue pan? Its a 6 ft flue with 7 inch flues , do I want the bubbler to run the full length of each flue? Thanks again for a great thread.

Yes you want the bubbler to run the full length of each flue in the flue pan.

[lakeview maple]

Well I built and installed a bubbler in the flue and front pans , all plumbed in and ready and waiting for sap. Anything else I should look for, do I need to remove it when I stop boiling to keep the sweet from plugging the holes? It took awhile to drill all the holes in each pipe and keep them even at 1 inch apart and all facing the same direction, but Im really satisfied with the results of the build. Now I just want to see the results.

[Russell Lampron]

Well I built and installed a bubbler in the flue and front pans , all plumbed in and ready and waiting for sap. Anything else I should look for, do I need to remove it when I stop boiling to keep the sweet from plugging the holes? It took awhile to drill all the holes in each pipe and keep them even at 1 inch apart and all facing the same direction, but Im really satisfied with the results of the build. Now I just want to see the results.

You don't need to remove it when you are done boiling. I remove the one in my front pan when cleaning and switching pans but have never removed the one in my flue pan. As far as I know none of the holes have plugged up.

[Russell Lampron]

My Bubblemaster 1.0 is now almost 4 years old. I am still very happy with the results from using it. I had many visitors tell me that my syrup was the best that they had tasted last year on Maple Weekend so I know that it isn't having a negative effect on the flavor. It was 3 seasons ago when I last made some dark syrup which is the only draw back from using the Bubblemaster. My customers like dark syrup and so do I but they will buy Amber when they can't get Dark especially after they get a taste of it. I prefer making the lighter syrup that I make now as to making all dark and commercial before.

I boiled all of last season without cleaning my front pan and I made 188 gallons of syrup. Without the Bubblemaster I would have changed the front pan about mid season. It was getting a little dirty near the draw offs but still wasn't burning on. The flue pan cleans up much easier now too.

I tried boiling without using the Bubblemaster last season and noticed a big decrease in my evaporation rate. It seems that blowing cold air into the hat sap has the opposite effect and I actually gained some efficiency. It is hard for me to figure out what my evaporation rate is because I never know how many gallons of concentrate I am boiling and usually get the evaporator up to operating temperature and have to shut down.

[lakeview maple]

Ive made 35 gallons of either Light and delicate or Amber Rich so far, Ive pulled the front pans off like normal and there is really nothing there to clean. The front pan had very minimal niter and it cleaned up in 15 minutes. Im very pleased with it so far and my defoamer use is down to almost nothing , no build up in the pans at all its great.

[adk1]

So is the addition of air basically to keep agitating the syrup so nothing falls out of it?

[Russell Lampron]

So is the addition of air basically to keep agitating the syrup so nothing falls out of it?

It's to keep the nitre that is produced from building up on the bottom of the pan and burning there. The air is directed to the bottom of the flues and pan so it also cools it a little too.

[johnallin]

I want to bump this tread back up. Lots of interest lately on air injection lately and there is a wealth of information here - Thanks to Russ at Red Roof.

[Russell Lampron]

Thanks for bumping my thread John. I was thinking of doing it myself but just haven't thought about while I was here.

[johnallin]

Thanks for bumping my thread John. I was thinking of doing it myself but just haven't thought about while I was here.

You're welcome

[maple flats]

My 3x8 has a 3x5 flue pan with 10" deep flues. Anyone have experience using a bubbler with the deeper flues? It seems every year most of my syrup is Dark. I make a great flavored dark, but get little or no Amber and no Golden. Most years the only very dark is the end of season finishing off the pans, but with the weird weather this year, I made one batch of very dark, then it went back to dark. I have a great market for dark but very little for very dark. Even in my very dark I get great flavor. My thought is if a bubbler can get me some amber, after packing some amber, I might be able to use some amber to blend carefully with very dark to get more dark. I have blended B in the past (on a 2x6 that did make light) into light to get dark sucessfully, I'm hoping to do that again. I'd need a lot of amber, because it takes very little of the darker grade to change a lighter grade a full step. The last time I did it, I was going from light amber to dark amber by adding B. I think I had about 10 gal of LA and only needed about a pint of B. At that rate I'll need a lot of amber to use up much very dark.

[Russell Lampron]

My flues are 7" deep but the theory is the same. The air bubbles blow the nitre off of the bottom of the pan to keep it suspended so that it doesn't burn and discolor the sap. It should work with any depth flue.

This season the sap has been like first run sap all season here and other than 12 gallons of amber the rest of my 117 gallons of syrup has been golden. Wish I was a bulk packer with that kind of syrup.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

Russ do you set the air bubbler before the boil starts and how vigorous is the air moving the sap

[Russell Lampron]

Russ do you set the air bubbler before the boil starts and how vigorous is the air moving the sap

I set the bubble rate before I lit the evaporator and had it set to bubble pretty hard. After the evaporator came up to temp I tweeked it so that the sap would stay in the flue pan and so that the float wasn't influenced by it. When I get it set I don't need to touch it again for the rest of the season.

[802maple]

Good to see this thread still bubbling along.

[Russell Lampron]

Good to see this thread still bubbling along.

Yeah it pops up once in a while. I may be helping another member here build a bubblemaster this spring. He was really impressed with my golden syrup and wants to make some too.

[johnallin]

This would be a great summer project.
Russ, do you have drawings you're willing to share ?

[Russell Lampron]

This would be a great summer project.
Russ, do you have drawings you're willing to share ?

Unfortunately I didn't make any drawings. I looked at the one that Bascom's has in an evaporator in the showroom and I looked at a homemade one that my friend in Buxton, ME built. There are some good pics in this thread to give you an idea of what the finished product should look like. There's a pic by Old Man Maple that shows the one that he built for his flue pan on page 6 that pretty much explains it. I couldn't solder the pipes to the bottom of mine like he did because of the way that my Algier flue pan is made. I wouldn't be able to get it into the pan if I did.

[Windy Acres]

Thank you guys for all the great information on here, I added a bubbler to our 2x8, now just a bath for the evaporator and we should be back at it this afternoon! This syrup is about the lightest we could make before, we will see how it does now175921759317594

[Russell Lampron]

Thank you guys for all the great information on here, I added a bubbler to our 2x8, now just a bath for the evaporator and we should be back at it this afternoon! This syrup is about the lightest we could make before, we will see how it does now175921759317594

Nice looking bubbler. That should help you get lighter syrup, I didn't make anything darker than Amber last season. It will help your evaporation rate too, my 2x6 really comes to life when I turn on the Bubblemaster.

[Windy Acres]

Do you think the high pressure blower I use for auf/aof would provide enough air for the bubbler?

[Russell Lampron]

Do you think the high pressure blower I use for auf/aof would provide enough air for the bubbler?

A high pressure blower will but a run of the mill squirrel cage blower for a furnace won't. There has to be enough pressure to force the air through the tubes and up through the sap.

[maple flats]

While I don't have one yet, I have studied this idea to some length. You don't need a real big blower, but it must be high pressure and you want to be sure the supply air is being pulled from an area where it will not pick up any bad smells (diesel exhaust, or any other bad smells).

[Windy Acres]

Yes, it is a high pressure blower, the Dayton radial blower recommended by Cornell for a 2x8 evaporator

[chrisnjake9]

so for my 2x6 oil fired which would be the better option the dayton or the Ametek 116472-13 Blower for a bubbler in both pans

[Russell Lampron]

so for my 2x6 oil fired which would be the better option the dayton or the Ametek 116472-13 Blower for a bubbler in both pans

I'm not sure if those are high pressure blowers or not. The blower has to put out enough pressure to force the air through the tubes and up through the sap. I use a small shop vac that I bought just for the Bubblemaster. The advantage of using a shop vac is that it has a filter in it. The disadvantage is the noise it makes.

[wiam]

I'm not sure if those are high pressure blowers or not. The blower has to put out enough pressure to force the air through the tubes and up through the sap. I use a small shop vac that I bought just for the Bubblemaster. The advantage of using a shop vac is that it has a filter in it. The disadvantage is the noise it makes.

The Ametek listed is for a central vacuum. That is the one Jerry recommended.

[Russell Lampron]

The Ametek listed is for a central vacuum. That is the one Jerry recommended.

Thanks for the info. Do you know if it's quieter than a shop vac?

[wiam]

Thanks for the info. Do you know if it's quieter than a shop vac?
I do not have one in my sugarhouse. I can tell you the central vac in my house is probably not quieter than a shop vac. I am still in the bubblemaster planning stage. lol

[jpcole]

Shop vac's are great but the motors are not rated for continuous use. I been through two in two years. I'm looking at an electric leaf blower next.

[Russell Lampron]

Shop vac's are great but the motors are not rated for continuous use. I been through two in two years. I'm looking at an electric leaf blower next.

I'm using the smallest shop vac from Lowes on mine and am still using the same one that I bought in 2013. I rarely boiled for more than 3 or 4 hours at a time.

[lakeview maple]

I'm on year three with my 3.5 gallon craftsman shop vac, its awesome , I ran it from outside with pvc to keep the noise down. I built a small shelter under the deck for my bulk tank for it to keep the noise down. Thanks again Russell for all the help.

[chrisnjake9]

has any one used ss tubing to build one if so any pictures

[Russell Lampron]

I'm on year three with my 3.5 gallon craftsman shop vac, its awesome , I ran it from outside with pvc to keep the noise down. I built a small shelter under the deck for my bulk tank for it to keep the noise down. Thanks again Russell for all the help.

Mine is outside too for the same reason. I ran pvc in to connect it to the bubbler as well. When I'm boiling I have the noise from the vacuum pump and bubbler at one end of the sugar house and the RO at the other end of the sugar house. Everything is separated by walls and doors but it's still loud.

[prairietapper]

Russell how does the addition of air affect the boil rate, much at all? ( I get that the goal is lighter syrup) I was just wondering about the impact on boil rate.

[Russell Lampron]

It does increase the boil rate but I can't put a percentage number on it. When I first light the evaporator and before the pans are hot enough to boil I turn on the bubblemaster and get a lot of steam coming out of the pans. I also tried to boil without it a couple of times and the evaporation rate was noticeably less.

[prairietapper]

double bonus!

[S.S.S]

18027 My bubble master blower!!

[Russell Lampron]

18027 My bubble master blower!!

Looks good. Details?

[prairietapper]

what kind of pressure is required to get it to bubble good? I am wondering about a high volume low pressure paint blower. low pressure being relative to the old style paint sprayers. but they are a constant duty air pump

[S.S.S]

Looks good. Details?Its a blower from H2O innovation.

[chrisnjake9]

is the h20 blower for air injection. also do any manufactures make a air injection system

[Windy Acres]

The bubbler made a huge difference in the cleanliness of the rear and and the Amber we are still getting is great!18046

[Russell Lampron]

is the h20 blower for air injection. also do any manufactures make a air injection system

Yes but I don't know which ones. I first saw one at Bascom's.


The bubbler made a huge difference in the cleanliness of the rear and and the Amber we are still getting is great!18046

Nice!

[wiam]

is the h20 blower for air injection. also do any manufactures make a air injection system

I know H2O makes them. Not sure about others.

[S.S.S]

is the h20 blower for air injection. also do any manufactures make a air injection systemYes the h2o blower is for air injection. I know lapierre makes them because I seen one this summer a guy installed last season, I didn’t know they offered one till I seen the one the guy had.

[chrisnjake9]

how much could one expect to pay for a "store" bought one

[wiam]

how much could one expect to pay for a "store" bought one

Depends on size of evaporator. I was quoted about $1600 for system to go in my 3x12.

[chrisnjake9]

Depends on size of evaporator. I was quoted about $1600 for system to go in my 3x12.How much is just the blower for a 2x6 evaporator I can build the rest

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

[wiam]

Didn’t ask that. Commercial systems are using a central vac blower in some sort of filter box.

[S.S.S]

How much is just the blower for a 2x6 evaporator I can build the rest

Sent from my SM-S320VL using TapatalkI bought my h2o blower last May I beleave when there 23.5% discount was and paid like $525 or $550.

[johnallin]

I still want to take a look at a BubbleMaster...didn't happen for this year but it's sure got my attention

[Russell Lampron]

I still want to take a look at a BubbleMaster...didn't happen for this year but it's sure got my attention

It's too bad that you don't live closer to NH. I would gladly show you mine.

[S.S.S]

We have defiantly gained evaporation rate with bubbler system. On our 3x12 we where doing 150gals an hour. Normally we are around 100-110.

[mol1jb]

We have defiantly gained evaporation rate with bubbler system. On our 3x12 we where doing 150gals an hour. Normally we are around 100-110.

Would love to see some pics of it in your setup. That will give me some ideas for this off season 😉

[S.S.S]

1839018391Lighest syrup ever made with bubbler system. Pic is with tubes in my syrup pans.

[Russell Lampron]

1839018391Lighest syrup ever made with bubbler system. Pic is with tubes in my syrup pans.

Very nice! I've experienced the same thing. Samples from last years boils.

18392

[Dlee]

Was wondering if a bubbler system would be of any help on a flat pan

[Russell Lampron]

I have one in my front pan which is a flat pan with dividers and it does help. It keeps the foam knocked down and it keeps the bottom of the pan cleaner.

[Dlee]

Thanks Russ think I will try and make one out of half inch copper pipe would a bathroom exhaust fan make it work or do I need something with more power. I find when I get the niter on the bottom of the pan it will boil over easier, if its clean it doesn't do it near as bad, and you don't have to cut back on the fire. Just trying to make life easier is all lol

[Russell Lampron]

You're going to need a high pressure blower, a bathroom exhaust fan won't do it. I'm using a small shop vac but any vacuum cleaner with an exhaust port will work.

[Dlee]

Thanks for your help now I just have to wait for next yr to see how it works:lol:

[billschi]

this sounds like a great thing for the birch guys as well. I keep eyeballing my few birch trees as I drive by them....
thanks for sharing - another dang thing I've got to think about making.

Just curious if you tried this with birch sap? I think it's a great idea.

[billschi]

I really think this would be great for birch sap, especially increasing evaporation rate. I have a modification ready for my heating oil arch that the pan will sit on top of firebrick to prevent burning.
I think I will use this manifold to keep things simple and less expensive.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-Chief-678-20442-1-Copper-Manifold-w-1-2-Sweat-Loops-4-Outlets-Male-x-Female-Sweat?gclid=CjwKCAjwq_vWBRACEiwAEReprMYQmo2oVDiuca xLn_qrmzdLz6muQkPFI0Y4hBYHGs0QHCiJ-3I5oxoCDXEQAvD_BwE

[billschi]

This is the bubbler I made for my flat pan.
20019

20020

[Windy Acres]

20083here is proof that the bubbles make a huge difference, I couldn't figure out why we weren't making golden in the beginning of the season, well you can see what day I found the holes in the tubes plugged with niter🤐, top left to bottom right was our season--

[Mark B]

I really think this would be great for birch sap, especially increasing evaporation rate. I have a modification ready for my heating oil arch that the pan will sit on top of firebrick to prevent burning.
I think I will use this manifold to keep things simple and less expensive.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-Chief-678-20442-1-Copper-Manifold-w-1-2-Sweat-Loops-4-Outlets-Male-x-Female-Sweat?gclid=CjwKCAjwq_vWBRACEiwAEReprMYQmo2oVDiuca xLn_qrmzdLz6muQkPFI0Y4hBYHGs0QHCiJ-3I5oxoCDXEQAvD_BwE

Link doesn't seem to work but it got me close enough. Great idea on the premade manifold.

[mol1jb]

I like the idea of the shop vac but how are you using these to blow air since they are suckers of air?

[BAP]

Most shop vacs now are made so you can put your hose on the exhaust port and use them as a blower.

[Mark B]

Most shop vacs now are made so you can put your hose on the exhaust port and use them as a blower.

Most small wet dry vacs are reversible or you can buy this spray painter on eBay and cannibalize the blower.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F33 2855308033

[Russell Lampron]

I like the idea of the shop vac but how are you using these to blow air since they are suckers of air?

I use the outlet for the vacuum as the blower. The suction side is the air inlet.

[mol1jb]

If I were to take a line off of my AOF/AUF blower to power a bubbler would to be necessary to put a filter on that line? Using a bouncy house blower for AOF. Blower is in the attic of kitchen.

[johnallin]

If I were to take a line off of my AOF/AUF blower to power a bubbler would to be necessary to put a filter on that line? Using a bouncy house blower for AOF. Blower is in the attic of kitchen.

As long as the air you're pumping into your syrup is free of any fumes or dust etc, you should be fine. You probably won't know until you try it.
I'm not sure what Russ at Red Roof Maples uses, he has certainly paved the way on this forum regarding bubblers, and I'm sure he makes great syrup.

The H20 unit has 3 filters to clean the air. Outermost is a standard pleated filter much like on a small furnace; the inner two are charcoal.
My thoughts are that if you're certain the air is clean and you're not adding any nasty stuff, you should be fine. On the other hand; H20 is selling a product with little control over the installation so they went the extra mile with filters and all stainless construction.

As this is one piece of equipment that could really mess things up; for me going with a professionally made commercial unit was a no-brainer!
It's not like making your own arch or an RO, we're talking about injecting air directly into your finished product.
As a side benefit, I can Tee off the main air pipe and add AOF or AUF at a later date. The blower is that powerful.

[Russell Lampron]

If I were to take a line off of my AOF/AUF blower to power a bubbler would to be necessary to put a filter on that line? Using a bouncy house blower for AOF. Blower is in the attic of kitchen.

I'm not sure if a bouncy house blower will make enough pressure. I tried using a squirrel cage blower and it moved a lot of air but didn't make enough pressure to force the air through the bubbler tubes. I use a small shop vac that I bought just for the bubbler and it works good.

[mol1jb]

What do you think about making the manifold out of pvc and the take offs copper. That would help keep the cost down and make it easier to build for someone like me with no soldering experience

[Russell Lampron]

What do you think about making the manifold out of pvc and the take offs copper. That would help keep the cost down and make it easier to build for someone like me with no soldering experience

The manifold would melt if you made it out of pvc. My pvc supply pipes which are outside of the pans are warped from the heat that rises off of the side of the arch and pans.

Soldering isn't that hard to do. Just make sure everything is clean and dry before you start. Start with something easy, like an elbow or tee and by the time you get to the difficult stuff you'll be a pro.

[mol1jb]

The manifold would melt if you made it out of pvc. My pvc supply pipes which are outside of the pans are warped from the heat that rises off of the side of the arch and pans.

Soldering isn't that hard to do. Just make sure everything is clean and dry before you start. Start with something easy, like an elbow or tee and by the time you get to the difficult stuff you'll be a pro.

Thanks for the info

[mol1jb]

Would 3/4 inch be large enough for the manifold? I would like to do 1/2 inch branches. Larger than 3/4 makes fittings expensive.

[Russell Lampron]

Would 3/4 inch be large enough for the manifold? I would like to do 1/2 inch branches. Larger than 3/4 makes fittings expensive.

I made mine with 1" manifolds and 3/8" tubes. The 1" manifolds transition into a 1 1/2" PVC air supply pipe. I think 3/4" manifolds will work but think that 1/2" tubes, if that's what you're referring to as branches, will be too big.

[mol1jb]

Question - What distance between holes drilled in the arms?

[Russell Lampron]

Question - What distance between holes drilled in the arms?

I drilled mine an inch apart.

[gbeneke]

Russ,
I just want to thank you for starting the bubbler thread and for answering all the questions over the years. Don't know how you had time to boil. I just built one and with the big help of a plumbing friend, I think it is going to work.
I bought an 3/4 manifold with eight 1/2' outlets that fit my 2x4 SL evaporator for $15 on Ebay. Just testing with water, my boil rate was much higher. None of this would have happened without your original post and answers.
Thank you,
Doc

[Bruce L]

We’ll see how it goes today. Have boiled about 4-5 times so far with the new bubbler system in the flue pan,couldn’t see much bubbling action going on,still lots of nitre and syrup not getting lighter. Had it “ teed in “ to the pipe feeding the steam away,not enough air I guess. Disconnected the pipe and hooked up to the shop vac,,voila,looks like the pan is boiling with no fire. Will permanently plumb it outside after the season if it works how I think it should.

[craigwade2005]

Well I thought that I had exhausted most of the projects I wanted to try. Looks like we've just added another summertime project to try and make something other than dark syrup. Thanks Russ!

[Bruce L]

Well I thought that I had exhausted most of the projects I wanted to try. Looks like we've just added another summertime project to try and make something other than dark syrup. Thanks Russ!
Craigwade,made all golden syrup from start to finish last year with the bubbler,turned it off after first 100 gallons made to make darker grades for customers requesting that instead. Now I have a selection of grades to sell for this year

[littleTapper]

Well I thought that I had exhausted most of the projects I wanted to try. Looks like we've just added another summertime project to try and make something other than dark syrup. Thanks Russ!

Adding this to my list as well :) Whipping up an auto-draw and a bubbler should be fun. This thread is a great resource!

[DMF]

Reviving an old thread with a question: Could the brass fittings used to make the manifolds be the Porta Press type vs. soldered fittings?