Double boiler/bottler solution for small producers

[Eric in Kinburn]

Hi,

If you are a small producer (less than 100 taps) what do you do to keep your syrup warm after filtering at a reasonable cost (and hopefully this is close to $0 :D)?

Here is what I currently do and would like to improve:
1) Boil on my 18"x48" evaporator until I get almost syrup. Draw the almost syrup several times until I have enough to finish.
2) Finish the syrup on a 16"x16" propane finisher like the first item at the top of this page
http://atkinsonmaple.com/catalogue/evaporators/propane_fired_finishers
3) Filter using Orlon filter and paper pre-filters in a Special Mini Filter Tank (middle of this page)
http://atkinsonmaple.com/catalogue/filtration
4) As soon as there is enough filtered syrup in the tank my wife starts bottling the syrup as I keep doing the filtration process

The whole process is not too bad, but the biggest problem I have is that we usually bottle at the end of the day and usually with the sun down it is colder in the shack (not insulated). Therefore as the filtering process goes on it usually slows down and the syrup in the tank gets colder and I'm guessing colder than 180F towards the end.

I know that double boilers/bottlers exist, but they are very expensive, I'm also aware that some of you use electric coffee urns but I don't have power in the shack.
That same company sells a contraption that converts the 16"x16" propane finisher in a double boiler (see mini steamer below) but I would have to lift the pan after the finishing process to slide the steamer under it while full of boiling syrup (not a very safe idea)
http://atkinsonmaple.com/catalogue/evaporators/propane_fired_finishers

Perhaps there is no solution to my "problem", but I will keep on looking. Ideally I would like to keep the tank warmer. Perhaps insulating it would do the job?
Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

Cheers,
Eric

[spencer11]

You could get a water jacketed canner, but I don't know of you want to spend the $900 for a small one, I got a canner from Wegner metal works for flat filters and dump finished syrup on the filters and it flows through into the pan, the I keep it heated up with propane and bottle right out of the pan

[Eric in Kinburn]

You could get a water jacketed canner, but I don't know of you want to spend the $900 for a small one, I got a canner from Wegner metal works for flat filters and dump finished syrup on the filters and it flows through into the pan, the I keep it heated up with propane and bottle right out of the pan

Thanks Spencer. I believe what I call a double boiler is the same thing as a water jacketed canner, but I could be wrong. That being said, there is no way I'm willing to spend $900 on this, but I appreciate the suggestions.

Cheers,
Eric

[spencer11]

There defentaly worth getting, just not with the number of taps that you have. With thy time of bottler I have, you can get a steam pan to go under it, so the the boiling water in the steam pan heats the syrup so there are no hot spots, it sounds like that's what you ment. The steam pans are typically under $150

[Eric in Kinburn]

There defentaly worth getting, just not with the number of taps that you have. With thy time of bottler I have, you can get a steam pan to go under it, so the the boiling water in the steam pan heats the syrup so there are no hot spots, it sounds like that's what you ment. The steam pans are typically under $150

I have no doubt they are worth getting, but I only have about 85 big enough maples on my 4 acres of land, so not worth it unless money is not an issue :)

[happy thoughts]

If you own a sewing machine, a low tech solution might be to insulate the filter tank with thermal quilted material on the order of a teapot cozy. Maybe you could repurpose an old insulated jacket or sleeping bag. It should help keep the heat in and would be washable.

[Eric in Kinburn]

If you own a sewing machine, a low tech solution might be to insulate the filter tank with thermal quilted material on the order of a teapot cozy. Maybe you could repurpose an old insulated jacket or sleeping bag. It should help keep the heat in and would be washable.

Thanks, I got a similar suggestion from another source. Check this out:

But, what about wrapping the mini filter tank with the insulating foil bubble wrap? You can buy this in building supply stores and I know Home Depot carries it. It is a silver metallic cover on both side of air bubbles trapped in plastic. I have purchased this to cover the exterior of my deep freezer in the basement. It sounds odd, but after applying two layers of that to my freezer, it just never comes on anymore, it has insulated it so well and prevented heat loss through the walls. You might consider that as a try. As you mention if the syrup is not in there that long, I think this product would really be a great help. Other than that, I don't have a good suggestion at this point.

[happy thoughts]

That would work :)

[rayi]

I bought a set of SS stock pots. The largest one sets on a turkey frier with 2-3 inches of water The medium one sets inside with the handles holding it off the bottom. I have a collender ?sp with my filters inside Get the frier going to getr steam from the bottom pan put the medium pan inside Then the filters go in. Syrup goes in the top and the top of the stock pots goes on

[Zamkev]

Eric,

I have almost an identical setup to what you describe. I have an 18X60; draw off(on the edge of heavy) until I get about 5 gallons; put it in a 18X20 finishing pan on propane to get the density correct; filter through a mini filter canner (3 pre filters and an orlon)...............but here's where we differ...

While the syrup is filtering, I clean out my finishing pan; change the 3/4 valve to a dripless bottling valve; pour filtered syrup back into finishing pan; put it back on the propane at very low heat (I actually take it inside at this stage where my pan fits nicely on my 4-burner propane stove and is away from the elements and I have better light); monitor the temp in order to keep it constant between 185-195; and start bottle as soon as it gets to 185 - no stirring. I usually have to shut the burners off about 3/4 the way through to hold the heat at that level so as not to get any niter.

My finished "product" (for friends and family) is packed in bottles and is crystal clear with no sediment.......yet!

Definitely worth a try this way before investing big bucks into something that might just produce the same results I reckon.

[Eric in Kinburn]

Eric,

I have almost an identical setup to what you describe. I have an 18X60; draw off(on the edge of heavy) until I get about 5 gallons; put it in a 18X20 finishing pan on propane to get the density correct; filter through a mini filter canner (3 pre filters and an orlon)...............but here's where we differ...

While the syrup is filtering, I clean out my finishing pan; change the 3/4 valve to a dripless bottling valve; pour filtered syrup back into finishing pan; put it back on the propane at very low heat (I actually take it inside at this stage where my pan fits nicely on my 4-burner propane stove and is away from the elements and I have better light); monitor the temp in order to keep it constant between 185-195; and start bottle as soon as it gets to 185 - no stirring. I usually have to shut the burners off about 3/4 the way through to hold the heat at that level so as not to get any niter.

My finished "product" (for friends and family) is packed in bottles and is crystal clear with no sediment.......yet!

Definitely worth a try this way before investing big bucks into something that might just produce the same results I reckon.

Thanks Zamkev,

Sounds like you have a pretty decent process going on. You may appreciate having a mini steamer made for your 18x20 propane finishing burner (see page below, about middle of the page).
http://atkinsonmaple.com/catalogue/evaporators/propane_fired_finishers

It would allow you to maintain a more constant temperature while not having to worry about the strength of the flame.

The main thing I don't like about your process is the pan cleaning part. I don't know about you but aside from the inside the underside of the pan gets a really thick soot deposit from the propane flame. I will start applying a bit of dish soap prior to burning, but it's real mess to clean. I usually clean the underside only once at the end of the season.

That being said, thanks for sharing!

[Zamkev]

Eric,

Thx for the link. I do like the steam tray idea - not having to worry so much about the flame. I'll see if I can swing the $ for a new "toy" next yr.

Re the pan cleaning, I don't clean the bottom between the finishing stage and the bottling stage - because yes, as you state it is a pain. Also, the amount of buildup depends on how long it is on the propane which comes back to how you draw off. This yr I took the advice of a few on this forum who draw off thick, and adjust the density down. This saves on propane $, time, and cleanup. With that said, I didn't quite manage to get all of my approx 5 gallons thick, so I did have to boil on the propane for about 1 hr to get it right. Still it was well worth the effort to wait a little longer on the evaporator.

[Run Forest Run!]

I don't know about you but aside from the inside the underside of the pan gets a really thick soot deposit from the propane flame. I will start applying a bit of dish soap prior to burning, but it's real mess to clean. I usually clean the underside only once at the end of the season.

Eric, soaping the bottom of the pans is the answer. Also, before I bring the pans inside to clean them, I rub the bottoms of the pans back and forth across the grass on the lawn. Most of the black soot comes off and more than half of your clean-up job is done right then! I realize that the black soot isn't that difficult to wash off, but I find the real problem with the soot is that it brushes off on everything it comes close to. Leaving it on the grass instead is a much less messy solution for me.

[Springfield Acer]

Check this: http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?12354-Cheap-homebuilt-water-jacket-bottler

[Eric in Kinburn]

Check this: http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?12354-Cheap-homebuilt-water-jacket-bottler

Thanks, yes I'm looking for something similar as to what you have but with a propane burner since I don't have power in the shack. I'll try to come up with a solution during the summer months.

[Zamkev]

Sounds like you have a pretty decent process going on. You may appreciate having a mini steamer made for your 18x20 propane finishing burner (see page below, about middle of the page).
http://atkinsonmaple.com/catalogue/evaporators/propane_fired_finishers



Just an update on this link and for anyone looking for a steam pan/tray for a propane burner. I contacted Thor and they have quoted $110 for a custom 16 X 16 X 4". This seems to me to be an extremely good price and well worth it for keeping constant bottling temp.

[Big_Eddy]

I take off heavy during the day and when I have a 5 gal pot full, I bring it to a boil, adjust density by adding sap until correct, then pour the 5 gallons at a boil into the filter canner with orlon and 4-6 prefilters. Before I pour in, I steam the filters upside down over a kettle so they are hot and damp (not wet).
7804
I carry the full filter canner into the house and place it so the valve is over the edge of the sink, and fill bottles until done. I preheat bottles in the oven to 185 prior to use.

I go until there isn't enough syrup left in the canner to fill a bottle, then take a break to let the remainder flow through (usually less than 500ml) The remainder goes into a jar in the fridge or directly into the kids.

I've checked temperature of the last bottle many times. - Never been under 180.

Start with boiling syrup and a well steamed filter and it will flow through quickly. If you start will cooler syrup and a cold filter, it can take forever to flow through by which time your syrup is cold.

Once the first batch is through, I'll remove 1 or 2 prefilters and pour in the next 5 gals. The filter is still hot (provided you leave the lid on)

[Eric in Kinburn]

Thanks for sharing your technique Big_Eddy. I find it interesting that you bottle inside your house where it is likely much warmer than in the sugar shack. I never gave that much thoughts because I thought that by the time I would get in the house, the syrup would have cooled too much. It gives me something to think about.

[Big_Eddy]

Biggest difference for me was the steaming of the filter. Makes a huge difference to how well the syrup will flow through. I flip it upside down over my kettle and boil it with the lid open for ~5 mins to get it good and hot. A cool dry filter will stop flowing right away. A hot steamed filter will flow the whole 5 gals through without slowing down. When I'm bottling, I fill bottles one after the other - the filtering syrup keeps up with me until it's all through. Keep the lid on and it'll stay hot and moist for the next batch too.

I use my propane burner in the garage rather than the shack - closer to the house. I bottle in the house because it's more convenient, has better lighting and the tasters -errr helpers - are there to cap bottles. I wouldn't say it was warmer - get's pretty toasty in the sugar shack when we're boiling.

[PerryW]

If you own a sewing machine, a low tech solution might be to insulate the filter tank with thermal quilted material on the order of a teapot cozy. Maybe you could repurpose an old insulated jacket or sleeping bag. It should help keep the heat in and would be washable.

For insulation, I have two beach towels that are sewn together that are long enough to fold in half and wrap completely around my 12 x 20" grimm filter canner. I use (office supply) binder clips that hold the flat filter in place and also hold the folded-towel in place. The towel insulates pretty well and is also washable. I put another towell over the top cover of the canner.

Funny, I have never wet my filters or prefilters, but then again, I draw directly into my filter-canner from the front pan draw-off, so the syrup is real hot.

[Otterguy]

Hi guys,

I started with an idea like Eric's. I had already made a pot cozy for camping and found that it worked very well at keeping food hot after taking it of the stove. So I made one to go around my cone filter holder (a 5 gal pail with slots for the filter tabs and the bottom cut out) and the stock pot under it. I used cheep 5/8 camper sleep pads and duck taped the cozy's together. Make a round piece for the bottom of the pot too. I used to cook outside and it worked very well at keeping the temperature up until filtered and I brought it inside. The temperatures are not that high that it melts the foam but don't use it on the stove.

Geoff

[jrm]

Eric, soaping the bottom of the pans is the answer. Also, before I bring the pans inside to clean them, I rub the bottoms of the pans back and forth across the grass on the lawn. Most of the black soot comes off and more than half of your clean-up job is done right then! I realize that the black soot isn't that difficult to wash off, but I find the real problem with the soot is that it brushes off on everything it comes close to. Leaving it on the grass instead is a much less messy solution for me.

I, too, have ,inimized the amount of soot I track in, by using the grass as a "boot scraper" for my pans. But, I'm intrigued with anything that can lessen the soot build-up from the get-go. Can you explain what you mean by soaping the pan?

Thanks.

[Run Forest Run!]

Using a bar of soap, rub a layer all over the bottom of your pan. I use one of those great old Sunlight laundry soap bars. That will keep the soot from sticking.