Maple Tap Act

[Burnt sap]

Ok I read the skinny on the Gov. Website about the Proposed Tap Act here in NY. It is Basically A grant for a study to allow producers to gain access to more trees. Maybe even state lands which I really doubt knowing NYS track records in the woods. Seems to me this study $$ some 20 Million would be better spent on grants to small sugar bush operators helping them to establish a bush and production equipment. From what I read this money will be spent on a study not on a solid means to help boost production. Please weigh in on this if I'm wrong?

[lew]

Well the DEC has put out a couple of small sugarbushes for bid. In our area, it was one with only 140 taps in it. Way too small for me to bother with. And you will have to jump through a million hoops to tap it. I called up our Regional office and talked to the man in charge of the program here. My biggest concern with their requirements is that basically you will have to make the wood s accessible to to people walking the woods during the off season. Which means raising the mainlines 8 feet high every 100 feet and taking down the lateral lines. Not worth my time. Also you would have to maintain any roads or laoding areas by placing shale in any areas that may be daamged due to trucking, chainsaw safety course certificates if you need to tun a saw, documentation of insurance and such on workers, and many more that i can't remember right now. Just look it up under Lands and Recreation at the DEC website.

While talking with the fellow at DEC, he said that he had to keep the site and resources accessible to everyone and make the State money. My response to that was that when the state has a lot logged off, the resource (the trees) are not accessible to anyone any longer. He really didn't have an answer to that. Any way, I didn't have any luck trying to get any bigger woods at this time.

[Burnt sap]

Lew that sounds about right for NYSDEC make it so tough you won't bother with it. But in the same breath they ask why nobody wants to tap the land:lol:

[Michael Greer]

Indeed, the money would be better spent by directly assisting with upgrades. There are plenty of trees out there that won't need state oversite, and plenty of landowners who could make a buck with either sugaring or rental to others. The hardware is expensive though, and most small producers expand or improve their operations on an out-of-pocket basis.

[BreezyHill]

I run a snowmobile club and work with two DEC offices/ foresters. Even though they are next to each other they have different views and rules. There will be large sections of woods available. They offered logging in many different size lots in this area before. What many did was contract on adjoining tracks to make it large enough to make worth while.
as for the chainsaw class...it is offered by CCE...Cornell Cooperative Extension and for snowmobile members thru NYSSA annually. I have been thru three of these classes and they are great! I have run saws for over 30 years and learn something new every class. Hans from Paul Smiths was the best instructor.
As for the S of NY spending money wisely... have you ever seen a gov't program spend money as a farmer or business man would? For every $1 a person received there is $10 that was spent to get it to them. LOL.

Ben

[maple flats]

Not to be negative, but the ratio may be closer to 20 to 1, where government spends $20 for every $1 that gets to the person or need!

[abk]

In my opinion avoid any Gov. help and fund your own expansion. All the Gov. does is spend other peoples money.
abk

[hilltopmaple]

$$$$$$$$$$$
Ok I read the skinny on the Gov. Website about the Proposed Tap Act here in NY. It is Basically A grant for a study to allow producers to gain access to more trees. Maybe even state lands which I really doubt knowing NYS track records in the woods. Seems to me this study $$ some 20 Million would be better spent on grants to small sugar bush operators helping them to establish a bush and production equipment. From what I read this money will be spent on a study not on a solid means to help boost production. Please weigh in on this if I'm wrong?

[Michael Greer]

So now a year has gone by, and I haven't heard a word about ANY of this. Have the frittered away the money doing a study? Has anyone been assisted by the TAP act? Has anyone heard from the State that there's a program of some sort running?

[sugarsand]

So now a year has gone by, and I haven't heard a word about ANY of this. Have the frittered away the money doing a study? Has anyone been assisted by the TAP act? Has anyone heard from the State that there's a program of some sort running?

As a New Yorker I'm proud to say that the Maple Tap Act was another huge success for New York State. It accomplished everything it was supposed to, stuff some very deep pockets of a very few. Hope you didn't think our State Government has received some sort of moral uplifting.

sugarsand

[DrTimPerkins]

So now a year has gone by, and I haven't heard a word about ANY of this. Have the frittered away the money doing a study? Has anyone been assisted by the TAP act? Has anyone heard from the State that there's a program of some sort running?

The Maple Tap Act was passed as part of the larger budget bill last year, meaning that $20M was authorized. However, authorized doesn't mean it was funded. There were no funds ever appropriated for this use, so there was no money spent for this purpose. No study was done, no pockets lined....nothing.

[Michael Greer]

I'd like to propose a new program... I think I'll call it the Maple Upgrade Act. My idea is that if the State has any money to pass around, they should give it directly to producers, depending on the size of the operation, to fund whatever the next logical upgrade might be. For some this might be as small as new 5/16 taps to replace the old ones. For others it could assist with the thinning of a wood-lot for fuel and sap production. Still larger producers might need road building assistance, or an equipment upgrade.
My point is; This could be done without any study, and with a fairly small staff to look over proposals, and ALL of these ideas and upgrades would create product, commerce, and wealth, and spread the money down here where the real folks live.

[Foremaple]

They have spent some money in Pennsylvania. I know of three RO's that were purchased with a 80% grant funded by the TAP act. They will also fund other upgrades, but everyone goes for the big purchase.

[DrTimPerkins]

I know of three RO's that were purchased with a 80% grant funded by the TAP act.

Totally different pot of $. Those are (probably) USDA energy efficiency grants, not Maple Tap Act funds (which don't actually exist). Maple also occasionally gets federal $ from Specialty Crop Block Grants that go to each state. The states are in charge of determining how to spend these funds (within the specified permitted uses). Often the amount an agricultural group receives depends upon how big the industry is....which is a good argument for reporting your production to USDA NASS each year.

[DrTimPerkins]

For some this might be as small as new 5/16 taps to replace the old ones.

While there are plenty of ways to spend money, I think pretty much all the research that has been done shows that replacing spouts provides an economic net benefit to producers (though increases in sap yield) regardless of who is paying for it. Sometimes you've gotta spend a nickel to make a dime.

[Michael Greer]

Yes of course, and I'm a big believer in infrastructure investment. My own operation includes a new sugarhouse that will serve my needs for decades to come, and will pay for itself in about 15 years... Still a bit of real, custom-tailored help would be great, especially in a year like 2016 when our season may just start and end in the same week, and my production may not even cover the needs of my own household. With any luck I may see a nickel made for each dollar spent this season.

[Burnt sap]

Update, Nothing new has changed since the Maple Tap Act was introduced. Only one producer in our area may have took NYS up on it they had the Governor and Assembly members visit the sugar house had the media there for photos and local news coverage. From what I could see it was all just smoke and mirrors. But in a way I'm glad NYS has kept it's distance from something we treasure so much with the track record they have they would just screw it up anyway.

[DrTimPerkins]

Update, Nothing new has changed since the Maple Tap Act was introduced. Only one producer in our area may have took NYS up on it...

The Maple Tap Act was Federal, and was included as part of the 2014 (?) Farm Bill, which runs for 5 years. It passed, however no $ were ever appropriated to fund it. Therefore NOBODY every got any funding from this source....and probably never will.

[Burnt sap]

Guess that about sums it up. Thanks Doc.