RO process and sugar sand

[Diesel Pro]

I run my sap throuhgh a screened funnel before it goes into my tanks. It seems to be catching a good bit of "junk" so my tanks should remain tidy.

My homemade RO has a prefilter in the design as well.

So I would assume that the amount of sugar sand etc will be minimal compared to just a pour/strain and evaporate process?

Would it be close to mnon existent or does it actually form during the cooking process?

[vtmapleman]

I believe the amount of sugar sand you get is the same with/or without an RO....sugar sand forms during the boiling process - some years are worst than others - this year it seems to be about average for me.

[Brent]

I second that.

The RO will have little to no effect on sugar sand.

All the dissolved minerals that make the sand should still be in the concentrate .... only concentrated

[Russell Lampron]

Like Brent said all of the minerals are still in the concentrate. What that means is that more of it collects in the flue pan because of the higher brix of the concentrate and being that much closer to syrup density when it enters the front pan.

[Brent]

Russ, I'm not so sure there will really be any more sand in the flue pan. In fact it is my observation, (never measured or even thought about it at the time ) is that the concentrate leaves the sugar pan at about the same brix regardless of what it goes in at ... and the syrup pan is oblivious to what happens before the sap gets there ... it just finishes at a
constant rate or somewhat faster rate. So I'm thinking the sap stays in the flue pan for a shorter time and precipitates more in the syrup pan.
Since starting to use the RO I "think" I see more sand in the syrup pan. But we all have a hate on for the junk so who knows what is really going on. My flue pan has been no more gunked up with or before the RO ( I think)

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

russ is right, I notice more in flue, Its not like the syrup pan but definately my flue has more in it since using the ro compared to just running tree sap through it.

[Russell Lampron]

When you boil raw sap and it goes into the evaporator at 2% that sap will go into the front pan at roughly 8%. 8% sap is able to hold more suspended minerals than higher concentration levels so less of it is left behind in the flue pan. When it goes into the flue pan at 16% it is already at a level that is twice as sweet as the exit sweetness of raw sap. It releases more nitre in the flue pan as it gets even sweeter before going into the front pan. I haven't checked what percentage my flue pan sap is going into the front pan with the high percentage concentrate but it was around 17% when I boiled 8% concentrate. There is always a lot of nitre in my flue pan when I drain and clean it than there used to be before RO.

Clear as mud right!

[802maple]

Russ, is right many a sugarmaker have lost flue pans to increased sugarsand "nitre buildup" when they haven't cleaned several times a year. Smaller sugarmakers might not be effected as much, but I for one have the experience of this heavy build up and luckily caught it in time.

[PerryW]

Cleaning the back pan several times a year? Guess I'll stay small. I rarely even clean my front pan except at the end. I'm guessing my sap enters the front pan at about the same brix that you guys sap enters the back pan!

[802maple]

Alot of larger sugarmakers, clean after every night or atleast every other night. Since I posted this morning, I have discovered one of the larger sugarmakers lost his 6x10 fluepan for exactly this reason, a couple days ago. If you stay on it,it isn't that hard, it's when you let the axe get dull is when it becomes a job.

[Russell Lampron]

Jerry I know that it takes me a whole season to produce what some larger producers do in a couple of hours but I still get a lot of mud out of my flue pan when I clean it.

[802maple]

Yeah Russ, that is why it is important to clean. That mud turns hard and sticks to the pan and then it flakes off and falls to the bottom, becomes a 1/2 inch thick and the bottoms of the flues burn off.

[Mark]

Yeah Russ, that is why it is important to clean. That mud turns hard and sticks to the pan and then it flakes off and falls to the bottom, becomes a 1/2 inch thick and the bottoms of the flues burn off.

Hi Jerry, Last year we were talking about the first channel of my flue pan nitering up and this is what DR. Perkins had to say.

"I suspect what is happening is that you’re seeing a different form of niter than that that usually forms in the front pan. This niter at the entry point of the flue pan is caused when microorganisms in the sap or concentrate hit the pan and are killed by the heat. They form a sticky, protein-rich form of niter, which combines with and serves as nucleation points for regular calcium-malate, forming a localized pocket of niter. This isn’t unusual, but is a pain to deal with. You’re getting more of it now because you’re concentrating to a fairly high degree."

I am having the same problem this year, niter in the first channel of the flue pan and none in the rest until the final syrup pan. Crystal clear sap and making light amber so there should not be too much bacteria but who knows. I still think the tighter membranes I put in has a little something to do with it.

[802maple]

I guess we have to leave it to science, not seeing the problem as much this year.

[Mark]

I guess we have to leave it to science, not seeing the problem as much this year.

Jerry, What do you concentrate to and what membranes do you use? My first channel had a rough coating on it after the first 300 gallons and I kept the brix in the 12-16 range. The flue pan washer does not even touch it with permeate, ran it for a day. Now looking to buy a drum of acid to wash on the next cold day.

[802maple]

Usually around 18 percent and Mark 1's

[bushmark]

Alot of larger sugarmakers, clean a:lol:and clean as wellfter every night or atleast every other night. Since I posted this morning, I have discovered one of the larger sugarmakers lost his 6x10 fluepan for exactly this reason, a couple days ago. If you stay on it,it isn't that hard, it's when you let the axe get dull is when it becomes a job.











so you all see why a finisher is easier to replacec than a flue pan!

[wiam]

I do not see how a finisher has anything to do with a finisher. Opposite ends of the operation.