Sweet Sap Silver Maple?

[ibby458]

At the Maple trade show last week, a nursuryman was telling me about a tree he propogates called sweet sap silver maple. He claims it will grow in wet locations with heavy clay soil, tappable in 8 years and a sugar concentration of 3.8-4.3%. He says he has a 10 yr old tree that made 1 gallon of syrup this year.

Anyone else ever hear of this? Seems almost too good to be true.

[forester1]

Is the tree grafted or from seed? Mostly sweetness is from genetics but sometimes location or other factors have a lot to do with it.

[Fred Henderson]

The guy that Ibby is referring to knows his stuff. I also talk with him at the trade show and read a paper that he had written. In it he said that most of his trees were being planted in Vermont and he was wishing that some producer's in NY would start planting them here. I bought blue berry plants from him this year that we planted in latter Apr and already we are reaping furit from them. Who knows I may be the first to plant some of his maple trees.

[maplehound]

Being silver maples though, won't they bud out early like the red maples? In my area I can't hardly tap the red maples before they are in bud. I would think that the silvers would do the same.

[cncaboose]

I have a large silver maple in my yard that I drilled a test hole in this spring. It tested 3% and made a lot of sap but...........the sap turned visibly brown half way through the sugaring season. I don't think that silvers will compete due to their short functional season.

[ibby458]

I tapped one silver maple the first year that I made syrup. Never got a drop of sap out of it. Never tried it again, either.

Bill does know his stuff, but it's natural for a salesmen to gloss over the drawbacks to his goods. Maybe that gallon of syrup he got from the one tree was all grade C?

I still think I'll get 10 of them for yard trees. They'll provide shade, if nothing else, while I evaluate them for more intensive plantings.

As to be expected, Bill's a bit evasive on exactly how he propogates them. He does deny grafting them. I expect rooted cuttings, or possibly seeds.

[cheesegenie]

My 15 acre bush is soft maple and I tap 100 or so. Last year was
30 to 1 sweetness. But like the others said, the season is short and
being in a swamp on blue clay and muck, hard to get around once
frost is out. But like everything else, you have to make the most
of you have , and the least of what you don't.

[lew]

How big of a tree is this guy planting? According to ibby458, this tree will be tappable in just 8 years. You mean to tell me that these trees grow 10 inches in just 8 years? That's hard to believe, and if it's true, the tree would seem to be short lived. In just 32 years the tre would be 40 inches in diameter, about the end of its life span.

[Fred Henderson]

lew, You if think that a tree that is 40" in dia is at the end of it life cycle, you should take a walk thru the bush owned by CNCBOOSE. Never in my life have I seen so many big maples that were not roadside trees.

[lew]

I guess I did make it sound like it could die at any minute, but what I meant was that it won't be too long before it does. Something growing that rapidly won,t be around for over 100 years like our sugar maples will.

At 100 years old these sweet silvers would be approx. 96 inches in diameter, that 's 8 feet! Granted, there are trees that big out there, I tap a couple of them my self. But, they are few and far between. I don't see these sweet silvers lasting that long. However, if it's about there grwoth rate then, who cares. Just plant a new bush every 20 or 30 years.

[Fred Henderson]

After the first 5 years has gone by plant 50 trees every year. Just keep up with the culling.

[Cardigan99]

Hi Ibby. how do we go about getting in touch with Bill. Is there a web site? I'd try a few of these.

[Fred Henderson]

Cardigan99, For the silver maple try this www.sln.potsdam.ny.us and his phone number is (315) 265-6739.

[Cardigan99]

Thanks for the heads up Fred

[ibby458]

I wouldn't try email. He never answered mine. I'm gonna stop him next time I see him go by on his tractor.

[Fred Henderson]

I checked his web site this morning after I posted the link to make sure that it worked. It said that he was sold out of the silvers until next year. I plan on ordering 20 each year for the next few years. Someone will get to tap them if it not me.

[Cardigan99]

I checked the web site. they are out of stock until next year.

[Fred Henderson]

99,,,,,,, You should put your order in now, that is what I plan on doing. He only lives about 4 miles from me. Every time that I go to town I have to go right by his place.

[hholt]

I still think I'll get 10 of them for yard trees. They'll provide shade, if nothing else

We have predominantly silvers here in Southern Illinois, where they are basically a weed tree. They grow fast and are shortlived. They used to be planted in peoples yards for landscape shade trees but no one does that any more since they they are very brittle and suceptible to damage from wind and ice. Not a very safe species for landscaping near a building or overhead wires.

[davey]

I contacted Cornell University's Maple Program about the trees. i will post the text of our communication below.
Dave,
Brian copied me on his note to you. I would only recommend the silver
maple if the soil is too wet to support sugar maple. While the nursery
owners claims that these trees get between 3 and 5% SSC, there has not
been any independent verification. We are doing research on this silver
maple selection this winter to acquire data on sap sweetness and volume-
we'll have results by sometime in April to share if you are interested in
planting this Spring.
Mike

> Dear Dave,
>
> Mike Farrell knows more about this than I do. It is his feeling that
> silver maple will be a better choice in wet soil and streamside
> conditions than is sugar maple. Research on silver maple has shown
> that its sap quantity and quality are competitive with sap from sugar
> maples.
>
> I hope this helps. If you do decide to plant silver maples, please
> let Mike Farrell know as he is interested in getting more experience
> with the performance of these trees
>
> Brian
>
> On Jan 23, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Dave BRUINIX wrote:
>
>> what do you think of it as a tree to plant for a future sugar bush?
>>
>>>>> Brian Chabot <bfc1@cornell.edu> 1/23/2007 11:44 AM >>>
>> Thanks Dave. We know about this and Mike Farrell has been working
>> with this nursery.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Jan 23, 2007, at 11:12 AM, Dave BRUINIX wrote:
>>
>>> this is from a company called St. Lawrence Nursery, http://
>>> www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/ do you know much about this tree?
>>> Sweet Sap Silver Maple * Acer saccharinum, C. Larson selection
>>> 2 to 4 ft. trees $22.00 each, 100 or more $20 each
>>> A special selection of Acer saccharinum that produces sap with a
>>> sugar content of 3 to 5%. (Sugar maples run about 2 to 2.5%) The
>>> advantage to the syrup maker is less time collecting, hauling and
>>> boiling down sap. Silver Maples will grow on wetter soils than
>>> sugar maples and they are much faster growers, becoming tappable in
>>
>>> about 8 to 10 years. Discovered in Canada by Cedric Larson, and
>>> propagated via tissue culture.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>


--
Michael Farrell
Northern NY Maple Specialist
Cornell University Department of Natural Resources
Uihlein Forest-Sugar Maple Research and Extension Field Station
157 Bear Cub Lane
Lake Placid, NY 12946
mlf36@cornell.edu
http://maple.dnr.cornell.edu
Phone: (518) 523 9337 Fax: (518) 523 6418

[ibby458]

I can't trust my memory very far, but it seems to me there's been a drastic price increase for these trees. Weren't they like $6 each before, or 10 for $50?

[Fred Henderson]

I can't trust my memory very far, but it seems to me there's been a drastic price increase for these trees. Weren't they like $6 each before, or 10 for $50?


Your memory if fine. The price has increased. The same old thing supply and demand.

[ibby458]

Well - the demand just dropped! I'd have tried 10 at the old price, but he can keep 'em at the new price.

[pennslytucky]

its been 8 years since the last post....how many guys still have these, and are they producing?

[TreeTapper2]

Anyone...anyone..
Would like to know the status on these trees as well.
I purchased 10 for this spring planting...looking forward to seeing them grow. I have a great place for these trees with high water table.

[markct]

I planted 10 about 4 or 5 years ago. A couple died as i wasnt diligent on watering them. A couple more got run over by the contractor doing my foundation. One i hit with the bushog. Couple others had kinda got lost in the brush then were taken out when building my hobbit house to store my syrup underground. 2 i think are alive and well but cant be certain as they may just be maples that took hold and started to grow near them. So overall i wouldnt blame the trees but thats my status update! I do plan to buy more this year

[TreeTapper2]

Markct, you'll want to put an order in soon. This is the last year for the current owners.

[markct]

Good to know! Yea shoulda figured the old guy with his huge beard would get outa the nursery biz at some point. New owners takin over or just dissolving the company?

[TreeTapper2]

They say new owners but could be a couple of years.

[Sweet Maple Trees]

Fast forward to 2011. Mike Farrell does know that there is clonal stock of this sweet silver maple tree in the sweet tree clonal orchard bank which has high sap sugar content/ which I have personally tested just under 4% SSC.

[TreeTapper2]

We planted our 10 sweet sap silver maples this spring. Got them in the ground within 5 days of their delivery. The mini trees were in great shape and ranged from 2 1/2 feet to 4 feet tall. We spread them out over a wide area looking for openness in the canopy for them to grow into with lots of sunshine. Mulched and fenced around them. 8 of them started pushing out leaves right away and 2 kind of struggled for a bit. As of recently all 10 have leaves out and I notice 4" of growth on one but I have not checked the other 9. The temperature has been great with lots of rain. If seems these trees are off to a great start.

We will keep our progress posted.

[softmaple]

our sweet tree is still growing we got one back in 2008. it about 8 foot tall 1 inch diameter trunk and leaves are sparse, but under dense foliage. I never tested the sap content either. I bet if it was in direct sunlight it would be doing better.