Tree ID with no leaves

[Diesel Pro]

I was out cutting up and skidding downed trees and I got a wild hair to tap some trees this year. We have 40 wooded acres and lots of maples. I can ID the maples pretty well, but how do I know what species and is it that critical? I know that most of our leaves turn yellow and fall flat. So is there a good way to judge by the bark?

I have a very good series of trails. With the snow cover that we have this year I'm looking to tap the "gravy" trees at the edge of the trail and the best ones of those.

[Sugar Daddy]

In a woodlot that contains a mix of sugar and red maples, when viewed from a distance (~ 100 ft) the bark of the sugar maples appears as if it's been 'ironed', i.e., it looks like there are smoothed areas of bark on the trunk.

[wshaw932]

for me, one of the easiest ways to tell isby your landscape. for instance, i dont know where you are, but i am in medford. silver maples only grow in the moist areas. flood plains, semi perched water tables, and lower ground close to water in any respects. red maples like full sunlight and sugar maples usually tend to start out under the canopy. it helps to know weather or not the property was logged, but red maples tend to be in high numbers in disturbed areas. they like to grow with aspen. sugar maples are all over, but they prefer very healthy sites. when they start growing, they are in close to full shade alot of times. does that help at all?

It doesnt matter what you tap, they all have sugar. mix the sap together if you want, theres just more water in the sap from silver and sugar. not a huge deal. careful with the silver maples though. this year, it is so late, they are going to start setting bud soon, and if they do, your syrup will taste funny. as silvers get larger there bark is long flaky sheets, whereas the other maples have hard dense bark.

the maples turn reddish and orangish in fall. real bright colors. the silver tend to turn more of a yellow, and the leaves are really thin, with deep cuts. honestly, if i were you i would start this summer by marking all the maples with the leaves on them.

[unc23win]

If its a Maple tap it. Sugars usually produce more sap and have higher sugar content, but any Maple will yeild sap. Going by the bark depends on the woods some are ironed looking and some aren't. Some have tighter bark and others don't its interesting looking them over how different they can look. If I question myself looking at the trunk I look at the roots sometimes two different looking trees will have similar looking roots then I look up to see the first big branches there I look for a rippled looking section you'll catch on. Of course if it is a good temperature for sap to run and your not sure drill a hole before you run your line if your running line and if sap comes out its Maple.

[acerrubrum]

I'd suggest getting a tree id book and familiarize yourself with how the buds look for different maples in the winter. If you have Red Maples, something is red all year; buds in the winter, leaves in fall and leaf stalks are red all year. The size of Sugar Maple and Red Maple buds is usually the same, but Sugars have brown colored buds, not red. Usually the bark on Reds is smoother than Sugars, but not always. If it's winter, the surest way to id trees is the bud.

[Diesel Pro]

If its a Maple tap it. Sugars usually produce more sap and have higher sugar content, but any Maple will yeild sap. Going by the bark depends on the woods some are ironed looking and some aren't. Some have tighter bark and others don't its interesting looking them over how different they can look. If I question myself looking at the trunk I look at the roots sometimes two different looking trees will have similar looking roots then I look up to see the first big branches there I look for a rippled looking section you'll catch on. Of course if it is a good temperature for sap to run and your not sure drill a hole before you run your line if your running line and if sap comes out its Maple.


Good to know. We have big silvers here in the yard at home here so I am familiar. The leaves seldom turn color, are thin, and curl up. Not much if any of that in our woodlot.



for me, one of the easiest ways to tell isby your landscape. for instance, i dont know where you are, but i am in medford. silver maples only grow in the moist areas. flood plains, semi perched water tables, and lower ground close to water in any respects. red maples like full sunlight and sugar maples usually tend to start out under the canopy. it helps to know weather or not the property was logged, but red maples tend to be in high numbers in disturbed areas. they like to grow with aspen. sugar maples are all over, but they prefer very healthy sites. when they start growing, they are in close to full shade alot of times. does that help at all?

It doesnt matter what you tap, they all have sugar. mix the sap together if you want, theres just more water in the sap from silver and sugar. not a huge deal. careful with the silver maples though. this year, it is so late, they are going to start setting bud soon, and if they do, your syrup will taste funny. as silvers get larger there bark is long flaky sheets, whereas the other maples have hard dense bark.

the maples turn reddish and orangish in fall. real bright colors. the silver tend to turn more of a yellow, and the leaves are really thin, with deep cuts. honestly, if i were you i would start this summer by marking all the maples with the leaves on them.

Not far east of you in Merril area. The tornado 2 years back traveled on a NE path and the two dairies that were hit were pretty much due north of us at the top of our section. We didn't do so bad as we are down in the valley and it seemed to just skim over so we just had high winds.

I cut and skidded a really nice maple that had uprooted on the creek edge. I seem to recall red buds on this one. It was a beautiful tree probably 24" on the stump.

Much of our property is damp to wet, but is sloped for decent drainage. It would make a perfect tube line setup, but I don't think I'll tube it.

We've owned the property since 2005 and I believe the comment was made that it was last cut 15 or so years prior so we've got about 20+ years since the last select. I call the leaves yellow, but they maybe could be called orange. There are some red leaves in fall, but they are in the minority. Lots of the larger maples are cat faced and/or frost split.

Since I'm only up on weekends I'm thinking I'll run twin 65 gallon tanks in my Ranger and probably tap 30 trees or so. I can get help to do a mid week collection so if during prime I had 30 sacks full I'd fill my tanks and on the weekend I'd have full sacks again. I'm not looking to go big the first year. I also don't know that I have the patience for the 20 or so hrs a weekend I'll need to cook. I'm thinking I home RO will be in order. I plan to visit Maple Hollow Saturday and start out with a Wesfab 24x48 with a second semi finishing pan.

[Vermont Creation Hardwood]

Here in the far north of Vermont I have red maples and sugar maples in about equal proportion. To identify, look at the buds. Red maples are blunt and fat, almost looking ready to burst. Sugar maples are thinner and pointed. As far as the bark, young bark is similar. Older bark is flakier on the red maples and more furrowed on the sugar maples. But each bark has a range and a big old red maple can have pretty furrowed bark. It just looks different. Red maple bark has a faint red tint, while sugar maple is grayer.

Red maples add to the flavor of the syrup. Sugar maple may have the higher sugar content, but the taste is blander and more simply sweet. Red maple has a nutty, smoky flavor and a smoother mouth feel. I think the taste of the syrups mixed is superior to either separately. My syrup is about half and half.

[JuniperHillSugar]

I am frequently asked to identify the sugar maples for family and neighbors. I explain my bark identification method, which is hard to explain. The last time I was out the owner put a small dab of paint on the maples that I identified. The only problem now, her kids think that sugar maples all come with a pink spot on them.

Seriously, once you can tell a maple from an ash, then take the time to really look at the texture of a 6" diameter maple. If it is smooth, it's probably red maple, if it is more coarse, it's probably sugar. Mark the tree and confirm when the leaves come out. In no time you will be able to identify sugar maples driving 65 mph from 500' away. But don't drive distracted, good luck.

[Diesel Pro]

I have a pir of 4" sugar maples that we just had brought in as shade trees last fall. I'll have a look at the buds on these but it's much harder to tell in the woods where all the buds are 20'+ in the air.

[moscowmule]

a logger friend of my mine gave me a bark ID lesson on red maples that helped a ton. he said when its got vertical marks on the bark like a cougar came a scratched lines down the tree with its paws, its probably a red. also if it has vertical and horizontal cracks resembling a shattered windshield, its a red. then of course you have your buds.
you could tap em both, but if you got more trees than you have buckets, you might as well only tap sugars.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I have a quick trick I use to identify and help others identify. This really only applies to mature trees. Younger trees are much harder to identify as a Reds is mostly smooth and gray and a Sugar is mostly gray and smooth. Also, In my woods the sugars get coloration's on them. Purple hints, pink and green.

My trick is this, rub your hand on the bark from up, downward. If lots of bark flakes off, it's a Red. Sugar or ROCK maples bark is much harder and generally doesn't flake like a reds. It isn't fail safe, but it works most of the time. All trees flake a little, but Reds do much more than a Sugar. When used with looking at the buds like others suggested, it will become easy. I suggest to tap the trees with the biggest crowns if you are cherry picking.

[Diesel Pro]

Well regardless what they are, we sank 45 taps today after visiting Maple Hollow to pick up supplies.

We went with simple clear plastic hose taps and ran them to 5 gallon Homer buckets with lids. Drilled the holes so the tube slides in snug. We had some running already. We'll see what tomorrow brings. Planning about 50 more taps. I think I might be a little nuts tapping so many, but I've barely scrathed the tip of the iceberg with what we have for trees. I'd say we covered less than 1 acre so far...

[cavescott]

Now that you have tapped your first 45 I would have to say its to late your done for. After getting started you will find that next year you wont care as much about what kind. You will be thinking how many can I do. It starts out as a quaint idea then turns into an addiction. If you smoke you will have to quit so you can use the fact that your not spending money on cigarets so you can buy more equipment. GOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN!:lol:

[Diesel Pro]

Hit 41 or so more today. This time I think I have it figured out. Looking at the tops the buds on the reds are significantly larger than the sugars. I selectively tapped the ones with the smaller buds. Some had bark that was black.

Things are just starting to run here...

[Mapler Jim]

If you want to read up on it a bit more then go to www.maple-trees.com that might help.

[maine guide]

make sure you know the difference between the leaves of a sugar and a red, look under the tree. what are the most leaves? About the buds you can poke someone with a sugar bud but a red is not sharp.

[Johnny Yooper]

Diesel Pro, you must be close by as I go to Maple Hollow as well, just picked up more taps there earlier this year and as of today have 60 put in (52 reds, 8 sugars). A lot of good tips in this thread on identifying sugar vs red maples, although I grew up in another country (the U.P.) where the common terms were hard and soft maples, at least in our area. As a youngster (and even much later) I helped my dad with making firewood on his land, and I could identify trees easily except for the maples. Soft maple never made in the bed of the pickup, even if it was easy pickings, trash wood he'd say, and mumble something about inferior BTU's and keep telling me to keep an eye out for the hard maples, yellow birch and ironwood; cherry was ok if it was real handy. He was a logger for a time so I got a lot of schooling on hard vs soft maples, what trees to leave for future logs, what to take for firewood, etc......for maples I learned by looking at the bark (I guess the buds were too high to get a good look at) and the comments in this thread pretty much fall in line with what I use for identification; reds tend to have somewhat smoother bark and appear more flaky than the sugars which have a rougher appearance and tend to look like ash but with less of a uniform pattern. I started tapping my trees 4 years ago; I stumbled across 2 sugars that first year and since then I noticed they always produce a good amount of sap vs most of the reds; after that, I was on the hunt for sugars, and in the last few years walking the woods during deer season, I started paying more attention to the trees, and I found a handful more sugars so I make sure to tap them, although it was interesting to read one comment here where someone preferred the reds over the sugars for making syrup. I also noticed that the sugars have wider and more full crowns than virtually all of my reds, and like someone here said, use the ones with the best crowns. My trees certainly have no value as logs, so I'm not losing any sleep with drilling 'em, and as mother nature dictates, they might find their way in my wood boiler anyway. Good luck this season!

[Diesel Pro]

Diesel Pro, you must be close by as I go to Maple Hollow as well, just picked up more taps there earlier this year and as of today have 60 put in (52 reds, 8 sugars).

We are tapping SW of Merrill, but I reside in Clark County.

[michiganphil]

... we sank 45 taps today after visiting Maple Hollow to pick up supplies... Planning about 50 more taps.

If you're getting the 2x4 flat pan evaporator like you were thinking, and can only boil on the weekends, I would hold up at the 45 taps.
A decent run at 1 gal/tap per day (45 gal/day x 7 days = 315 gallons). A 2x4 under perfect conditions may get you 16 gal/hr boil off. That would give you two 10 hr days boiling (just boiling, figure another hour for startup and an hour for shutdown)... also factor that you could get more sap than that, and your evaporator probably won't run under ideal conditions all the time.

My advice would be to stick with the 45 taps for this year, and get a feel for your setup.

[trees909]

Here in the far north of Vermont I have red maples and sugar maples in about equal proportion. To identify, look at the buds. Red maples are blunt and fat, almost looking ready to burst. Sugar maples are thinner and pointed. As far as the bark, young bark is similar. Older bark is flakier on the red maples and more furrowed on the sugar maples. But each bark has a range and a big old red maple can have pretty furrowed bark. It just looks different. Red maple bark has a faint red tint, while sugar maple is grayer.

Red maples add to the flavor of the syrup. Sugar maple may have the higher sugar content, but the taste is blander and more simply sweet. Red maple has a nutty, smoky flavor and a smoother mouth feel. I think the taste of the syrups mixed is superior to either separately. My syrup is about half and half.

Vermont Creation Hardwood, this is a very helpful insight. I started tapping last year and I'm only tapping sugar maples (that's all I have). The finished syrup is VERY sweet but lacks any character, it barely tastes like 'maple' and has a hint of vanilla. I've had several maple producers analyze my syrup and none could figure out why it taste like this.

[Diesel Pro]

If you're getting the 2x4 flat pan evaporator like you were thinking, and can only boil on the weekends, I would hold up at the 45 taps.
A decent run at 1 gal/tap per day (45 gal/day x 7 days = 315 gallons). A 2x4 under perfect conditions may get you 16 gal/hr boil off. That would give you two 10 hr days boiling (just boiling, figure another hour for startup and an hour for shutdown)... also factor that you could get more sap than that, and your evaporator probably won't run under ideal conditions all the time.

My advice would be to stick with the 45 taps for this year, and get a feel for your setup.

Homemade RO is in the works whenever the stuff shows up...