BIG PROBLEM-----No oil going to pump head in oil flood kit

[Bruce L]

I have a used De Laval 76 pump with oil flood kit,smokes pretty bad ,have only been running it for about 1 hour at a time checking for vacuum leaks.The head gets so hot you cannot touch it,the oil tank is warm from exhaust,the muffler does not get very hot,the oil filter stays cold.I carefully backed off the oil lines from the oil filter,neither one of them had oil pouring out of them as I thought it should while the pump was running.Oil filter is full of oil,lots of oil in the tank also.Should I pull the lines off individually and blow them out with the air compressor?I don't think I should blow them while they are hooked onto the pump so I don't blow any crud into the pump.Maybe i should also stick a pin or small nail in where they attach onto the pump head to make sure there is no crud in the orifice/I am going to try to attach a video my wife took with her ipad of the smoke pouring out..
Thanks for any help before I burn this pump up,Bruce

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Not sure but maybe oil tank needs to be vented. I have a different pump but had an issue with pump picking up oil, so I put tap hole sized hole in oil tank and can adjust venting with a capped tap.

[Bruce L]

Took the lines off the pump this morning,blew them back towards the oil filter with the air compressor,they were clear,blew from oil filter back into tank,clear.Vent tube on top was collapsed somewhat,so I shortened the tube and took the kink out of it.I then ran the pump for about 1/2 hour,with the lines into the pail that had collected the oil coming out of the tank while I was checking everything.They sucked the oil out of the pail,bluish smoke coming out of the muffler,guess I just have to get used to that,hard to ignore smoke coming out of the exhaust.The true test will be when the sap is finally running to see how the pump does during big flows.Supposed to warm up today,but not happening.

[mapleack]

Bruce, a blueish haze from the exhaust is normal. I bet your vent tube was the issue. The biggest thing to watch is pump temperature. Use the old spit n sizzle test, if it sizzles its too hot. If you can't hold your hand on it for at least a couple seconds, it's too hot.

[Bruce L]

Andy,pretty sure it's too hot,starts with a bluish haze,sometimes gets more white.I know you cannot touch the pump head when I shut it off,but maybe trying too hard right now with everything froze up.Pump is 300' from the mechanical releaser,have not glued any fittings together at the releaser because of the temperatures,you can hear leaks at the releaser,but the guage is still registering 25 + inches,so the pump is probably doing 26 or 27 inches.

[Bruce L]

Had the pump running for about 8 hours today,hard to ignore the smoke,spit would boil on the head of the pump,but it kept on running.pulled in about 1000 gallons of sap today at 25-26" of vacuum,pushed it all through the evaporator in just under 4 hours boiling time.

[mapleack]

If it's boiling spit you're going to burn up the pump. Set your regulator back to 23-24" and / or turn up the oil flow until spit doesn't sizzle any more. If you don't have a regulator on it, get one quick.

[maple connection]

I am with Andy, Turn the regulator down until you can spit on the pump or put your hand on it without burning your hand. I am surprise it made it that long, usually they burn up in a short period of time:o.

[nymapleguy607]

I think they rate the oil flood rotary vane pumps at about 25" max. If you want higher vacuum you need to go with a 2 satge liquid ring pump.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I just checked my pump and it is also a De Laval Model 76 w/out flood kit. Was pulling 20" Sunday, Monday morning it wouldn't get above 12. Now this morning after hunting for leaks and finding none, I have determined that the pump is toast. Is it worth fixing, trying to fix,. or should I seek out a new pump? I think it burned up? Not sure, it was hot, but taking oil as usual so I am not certain that is what happened. It failed the spit test. It is way too hot I think.

What would be the parts inside the pump that have failed, and is there any chance of finding parts?

In Central VT, Waterbury area, does anyone know if a shop that works on Dairy Milker Pumps????

Thanks for any help, I am freeking out over here in Duxbury. Sap finally starts running and my pump is dying:cry:

[mapleack]

I just checked my pump and it is also a De Laval Model 76 w/out flood kit. Was pulling 20" Sunday, Monday morning it wouldn't get above 12. Now this morning after hunting for leaks and finding none, I have determined that the pump is toast. Is it worth fixing, trying to fix,. or should I seek out a new pump? I think it burned up? Not sure, it was hot, but taking oil as usual so I am not certain that is what happened. It failed the spit test. It is way too hot I think.

What would be the parts inside the pump that have failed, and is there any chance of finding parts?

In Central VT, Waterbury area, does anyone know if a shop that works on Dairy Milker Pumps????

Thanks for any help, I am freeking out over here in Duxbury. Sap finally starts running and my pump is dying:cry:

Hopefully it's just the vanes, here's one place for replacements http://www.partsdeptonline.com/VANES-FOR-DELAVAL-76-4_SET/productinfo/948195/ There are also two delaval dealers in Middlebury. Delaval Direct and Bourdeau & Bushey. Your best bet for not missing sap will probably be buying or borrowing another pump until you can get yours fixed.

[BAP]

Best thing to do is pull the end cap off your pump and make sure the vanes are all free. If the pump gets too hot, it can create sludge in there causing the vanes to stick and not move freely and even possibly break. Check the edge of the vanes for chips out of them. They can be reversed so the other edge is the leading edge. Also critical to make sure the shaft seal is good and if it has a rubber plug on the other end cap that it is sealing good. If either of these two leak, it will not pull in oil properly. If your barrel has any scores in it, you can hone them smooth. Also make sure the end caps are smooth. Not all vacuum pump oil is created equally even though the sellers want you to believe that. Some of them can not take the high heat from the high vacuum. DeLaval oil is one of the best there is for handling the heat. The other thing that I do is make sure whoever your pump is located to be well ventilated for heat control. I also have on many pumps, set a window box fan blowing air directly onto the pump head to help it cool. Another thing that can cause oil problems is moisture. If the pump sucks in any moisture at all, it will create sludge in the oil filter slowing down the flow to the pump. If you should decide to get another pump and a used one, look for a DeLaval #84 pump head. It is a much better built pump. I have taken one and set it up with a 3 hp motor and it has lasted much longer than any 76 ever did. Cooling is the key issue with former milking equipment pumps. They were never designed to be run at over 13.5" of vacuum for a long time. The last thing that can happen to these pumps is the shaft turning inside the drum. I have seen it happen and the only cure is to get a machine shop to make you one that fits so tight you have to use a press to put it in.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Mapleact - thanks, I called Parts Depot and ordered new vanes as mine are smoked. I took cap off today and found 3 of 4 with missing pieces and cracked. Then I flipped them around so they all had nice edges. I was so happy as pressure went backup to 19". THEN something bad happened. The vac went pop and stopped spinning. Took cap off again and now 3 of 4 vanes are smoked. New ones won't be here til Fri/Sat. Is there anything I can use as a substitute? (doubt it, but had to ask). Can I run pump if I get two working vanes and set them opposite of each other? Does anyone out there have vanes that will fit the Model 76? I will come get them with in a reasonable distance. Or the DeLaval #84 head as BAP described? If so PM me so we can talk.

BAP when I took the cap off there was minor scorching, should I worry about that? Mine is vented well as it is in wood shed. I will add the fan though as heat seems to be a big part of the problem. I run a 5 HP motor which I know is a little much, could that cause a problem?

Thanks for the info.

Ben

[Bruce L]

Pump is still working,still maintaining 25-26" at the released.My wife picked up a new oil filter today,will be putting that on in the morning,don't think we will have another run until another freeze.The oil filter has never even gotten warm.Might also take the copper lines off and replace them with larger lines,maybe even 5/16"tubing lines?After season plan to drain the oil out of the tank,flush it out with lacquer thinner or something,as when I removed the oil filter set-up from the bottom of the tank the oil ran out in a slow trickle,thought it should have poured out,I allowed the lines to suck the oil out of the bucket that was catching the oil while I was checking things out,pump smoked away but I knew it was getting oil as I saw it disappearing from the bucket

[Bruce L]

One question still lingers before I make these changes,can you have TOO MUCH oil going to the pump?The 5/16" or whatever size I can get on will certainly allow much more oil to the pump than the copper lines it currently has

[ennismaple]

Bruce - We have that same pump. We run it at 20" but the Lapierre website says maximum 22". If you're running it at 25"+ that explains the smoke.

http://www.equipementsderabliere.elapierre.com/produits_en.asp?id_categorie=360&id_groupeproduit=300&page=1

You can get too much oil going to the pump. I believe you're supposed to set the thumb screws to drip about 4 times (each) per 10 seconds.

When we first got the pump my father had troubles with it too. I believe Lapierre had him suck a cup of diesel fuel through the oil lines (exhausting the pump outside and not to the oil reclaimer) to clean any residue out of the pump that was left over from manufacturing. I think (but I'm not certain) this is recommended every season to help clean out the pump. Ask whomever you bought the pump from for their advise because I'd hate for you to try something I mentioned and it be totally wrong and screw something up!

[ennismaple]

I just spoke with our rep from Lapierre about our DeLaval pump and if the pump is gummed up he recommends sucking 1/4 cup (not one cup - oops) of diesel or automatic transmission fluid through the pump to clean out the gunk. It should be followed immediately by a stream of flood oil (about another 1/4 cup) before shutting down the pump and reconnecting the oil line and the exhaust pipe. I hope you get the pump figured out!

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I took my plate of my pump Tuesday. I did the diesel fuel trick. I used a lot more than a 1/4 cup. Oh well. I dumped it in the exhaust and hand turned the pump to pull it in. I also put some through the oil inlet. I also changed out the intake lines to the pump and installed a fan blowing directly on the pump head. Combined with some new vanes and she is running much better and not getting so hot. I turned the regulator down to 18" to avoid over heating. I was told that if I injected oil I could get it up to 22". Bruce, I think you should try turning the regulator down a little. How are you getting that pump to pull 25". The thought that comes to mind is the pulley size. Have you changed the elec. motor? If yes, maybe new motor has bigger pulley and is turning pump head faster than it was intended to. I'll be looking for a 2 stage pump next year...Good luck

[Bruce L]

Update on the pump,still running this afternoon,pulling at 26" most of the time,not smoking as bad today,possibly because I found the check valve is done,when I shut the pump off it spins backwards for some time.I will have to get that corrected soon before it blows oil back to the releaser.