Anyone using propane to boil sap?

[HardWayMike]

Hey guys, this is our first year making syrup and wondering what the best way to boil. We don't have anything set up yet but need to get started. So please share some advise please. Thanks, Mike.

[SmellsLikeSyrupNH]

Ive got 3 turkey fryers going, can boil down about 5-6 gallons in about 4 hours with each setup...its NOT the most efficient way, but for my 1st year its working.

[Run Forest Run!]

I use propane too. Keep your eye out for the pan with the largest surface area that you can find. Seeing that you can boil off one gallon per square foot of surface area per hour, it makes a big difference. Try to prewarm your sap if you can. That will keep the boil rolling and not slow down your evaporation rate too much. Most importantly, HAVE FUN!

[HardWayMike]

Would you guys mind posting or emailing some pics of your set ups?

[Cake O' Maple]

I posted pics of my set up the first year here: http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?15736-First-boil!!-On-propane-burners-with-pics...&highlight=propane

I did re-do the sides to allow more air flow; the problem I mentioned was caused by not enough air getting in to feed the fire.

[seclark]

I used propane my first 2 years on a 3 burner camping stove,outside in the wind.The best advice I can give is if you are outside to block as much of the burners from any wind as possible.My first year I had my pots to deep with sap but I used the two end pots as pre heaters and the center one for finishing as the center one boiled the best.I went through 2 20 lb. tanks and made 1 and a 1/2 gallons of pure liquid gold and have been hooked ever since.It is not the fastest way to get syrup but what ever you get is well worth the effort.Have fun and enjoy the rewards.

[Run Forest Run!]

Here are a couple pictures of my set-up. I have since fixed, and added, my second burner to the set-up. Ideally I should have some bricks or something to block the wind, but this patio is in a sheltered area so that helps. I have solar lighting for when the boil rolls into the evening. The big coffee can drips sap into the pan and is pre-warmed by the steam from the boil below.

7502 7503

[KV Sappers]

I've been using this setup for 2 years now. I call it my little mini evaporator. There are 3 high pressure burners each 160000 btu with a custom made 42 x 14 pan with 3 channels. I have a pre-heater pan that sits on top. I can boil down 4 gph. I'm not looking to go big so this setup works great for me. I know propane is not the cheap way to go but I like the convenience of being able to just turn off the burners when I need to go somewhere in the middle of a boil.

7509

[DonMcJr]

Here's a Video with what I used last year when I started making Syrup...Click to watch it the pic in the Preview is just my Preheater Pan on my wood stove I used a Propane Turkey Fryer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYkv0EYcD_g&feature=share&list=PLB1BD5BD3CDB1F288

[not_for_sale]

Don,

Did you check on the carbon monoxide? I was able to get my co detector to go off in my 40x55 barn with the turkey fryer.

Joe

[bakerrunner]

Last year was our first year and we used propane and a turkey burner (which I also use for home brewing beer). It worked fine, but I recommend a steam pan, the large surface area will help. I boiled last year in a stainless steel stock pot, and it took forever to boil down, but ended up with about a gallon of syrup. This year I'm boiling on a wood fired concrete block set up. Next year I hope to have a proper wood fired arch.

[HardWayMike]

Where in centeral michigan would a guy find a big steam pan? We have one of those 2 burner outdoor/camping stoves to set a pan on. But no idea where to get a stainless steel steam pan to cover both burners. Thanks for the pics guys. We really appreciate the help and info. We put in the rest of our taps yesterday. So we are up to 41 total on buckets. Now if the weather would allow for some running we could try boiling some of it. Good luck guys.

[happy thoughts]

Where in centeral michigan would a guy find a big steam pan? We have one of those 2 burner outdoor/camping stoves to set a pan on. But no idea where to get a stainless steel steam pan to cover both burners. Thanks for the pics guys. We really appreciate the help and info. We put in the rest of our taps yesterday. So we are up to 41 total on buckets. Now if the weather would allow for some running we could try boiling some of it. Good luck guys.

A restaurant supply house should carry them. If you're lucky you may find some used ones there. Also online such as this place where prices look reasonable though I don't know what shipping will run. http://www.webstaurantstore.com/23407/steam-table-food-pans-standard-weight-anti-jam-stainless-steel.html?filter=Depth%3A6%22&filter=Size%3AFull&

A 4-6" deep full size pan will work best. Many if not most of us using these on block arches go for the 6" deep ones.

[Run Forest Run!]

So we are up to 41 total on buckets. Now if the weather would allow for some running we could try boiling some of it.

Hey Mike, another thought. If you've got 41 buckets, you are going to be doing a lot of boiling and could find yourself in many marathon boils. I own two propane tanks and have borrowed two additional ones from my family for the duration of the sugaring season. That way I always have two full ones on hand to switch out. If you are using BBQ tanks like I am you might want to consider borrowing a few extra to keep in rotation. Nobody wants to have to stop a boil to run into town.

[Cake O' Maple]

Also, I'd strongly recommend Vollrath steam pans. They're not the cheapest ones out there, but they're bigger than the cheapest ones I could find. :o [you'd think a full-size would be a full-size would be a full-size]

My very first year I bought a Vollrath full size steam pan off Amazon for about $35; last year I bought 2 more and went with the cheapest ones I could find online. Was shocked at the difference in size, both length and width. Never did get around to measuring how much they hold; sorry.

[HardWayMike]

Thanks for the link. Hope to be ordering a full size pan next week. Using a old roasting pan until then.

[HardWayMike]

Thanks for the tip. We have a little party store about 2 miles from us that sells propane so it shouldn't be a problem to refill after a boil. The funny part is that, for as long as I can remember, the name of the store has been and is, The Sugar Shack. Lol. Thanks again for the helpful info. We built our own lil sugar "shack" yesterday while boiling down some sap. I will try putting up some pics later today or tomorrow. By the way, we only have 20 buckets with 41 taps. And now, nowhere to put any more bulk sap. For future reference, plan farther ahead,lol!

[jnmartin]

Wow Mike, could we be neighbors? We live 4 miles North of a Sugar Shack that's on Sugar River Rd. By the way, I ordered my Volrath http://www.katom.com/175-90082.html full size pans and got them delivered in 2 days standard shipping. They're 8" deep pans and cost me about $90 delivered as I recall.

[mantispid]

Where in centeral michigan would a guy find a big steam pan? We have one of those 2 burner outdoor/camping stoves to set a pan on. But no idea where to get a stainless steel steam pan to cover both burners. Thanks for the pics guys. We really appreciate the help and info. We put in the rest of our taps yesterday. So we are up to 41 total on buckets. Now if the weather would allow for some running we could try boiling some of it. Good luck guys.

I get my pans from Tigerchef.com.

These are the pans I currently use:

http://www.tigerchef.com/winco-spf6-full-size-6-steam-pan.html You may want to order some lids for them too. Quite convenient when you have to stop for the night when a boil has to span more than one day.

[bakerrunner]

I bought two 4" pans this year from Gordon Foods in Saginaw, so if you have a Gordon's near by, that is an option. They are about 30 bucks. Not sure what thickness steel. But I am using them over a fire and they are holding up great. I am using propane for my pre-heat.

[HardWayMike]

Very possible,lol. We are onHilts rd, between butman and F97. We got about a gallon boiled down so far the past 2 days. Where abouts are you guys? It would be nice to see what a real system looks like. Happy holidays everyone. Mike

[jnmartin]

Very possible,lol. We are onHilts rd, between butman and F97. We got about a gallon boiled down so far the past 2 days. Where abouts are you guys? It would be nice to see what a real system looks like. Happy holidays everyone. Mike

lmao Yep we can't be over 3-4 miles NE of you. BUT...while I look forward to meeting you when we both have a break, I have anything but a real system lol. What I'm using is a Po-boy setup if I ever saw one. I'm using a full size steam table pan on a propane fish cooker in the garage and preheating in a 16qt stockpot on my wife's kitchen stove while she's at work...so shuuuush please lol

This is my first attempt at sugaring. With what I'm boiling today we'll have about 4 gal of near syrup. It still needs filtering, finishing, and bottling which will happen tonight and/or early tomorrow. It's fun and gratifying project for an ol' retired crank but my gosh it's a lot of work when you don't have the right equipment...which I hope to have by next season if this one isn't the end of me. No but really, I'm having a ton of fun and my wife loves cleaning up the sticky in her kitchen every evening. So glad she loves me!

Oh, and were up on Greenwood just across from Dunham Lake Rd. we'll have family tomorrow and Sunday but lets plan on getting together when we can take a break. Have a great day!

[Rangdale]

Glad to find a few other fellow propane users! We use (2) triple burner cast iron burners (got them at Northerntool.com) and a 26x36 pan that my father-in-law made for us. Discovered very quickly that using a flat lid off-set on the sides greatly increased boiling rate. We get 5 gallons of cold sap boiling in 6-7 minutes (15-20 minutes with no lid) and get about 6 gallons an hour evaporation rate. It certainly isn't the cheapest, but we get about 3/4-1 gallon of syrup per tank of propane. We like the fact that you can boil quickly and just shut it off if you need to leave. Thinking of trying to fashion a lid that will allow the condensation on the under side of the lid to drip out instead of back into the pan.

[happy thoughts]

Thinking of trying to fashion a lid that will allow the condensation on the under side of the lid to drip out instead of back into the pan.

I'd ditch the lid. It might be OK to use to help start the sap boiling but once boiling it will slow evaporation. You'll get better evaporation if the pans are left uncovered.

[Rangdale]

You would think that would be the case but if we take the lid off , the pan only boils directly over each of the 6 burners. We've tried it both ways and it's quite a bit faster with the lid off set so the corners of the pan are open to let the steam out. Thought about getting a pan made that was the exact size of the heating area (current pan is bigger than the flame area by a 1.5-2 inches on each side) as I think that would help. I know a "real" wood fired evaporator would be the way to go but for the amount we make and time we have, this works well for us. And it's been fun trying to figure out ways and come up with ideas to make propane work as efficiently as possible.

[happy thoughts]

You would think that would be the case but if we take the lid off , the pan only boils directly over each of the 6 burners. We've tried it both ways and it's quite a bit faster with the lid off set so the corners of the pan are open to let the steam out. Thought about getting a pan made that was the exact size of the heating area (current pan is bigger than the flame area by a 1.5-2 inches on each side) as I think that would help. I know a "real" wood fired evaporator would be the way to go but for the amount we make and time we have, this works well for us. And it's been fun trying to figure out ways and come up with ideas to make propane work as efficiently as possible.

I'm still not convinced about the lid :) Boil rate is one thing. Evaporation rate is something else. A lid is going to keep steam from escaping as well as it could uncovered. I think there are other options to try first. How deep are you running the pans? Less depth might help. Also judging from what I've read here about what other propane users have said and done in the past, shielding the flame from below can help direct the heat better toward the bottom of the pans, cut costs, and give a better boil. As I remember, people have used anything from aluminum foil to cinder blocks to shield the space below the pans. But as I remember you need to leave a little bit open so the flames can get some air. There's a couple of other threads here about that you might be able to find through a forum search.

Good luck and may we all have a great year!

[Rangdale]

I would say the sap depth is roughly 2-2.5 inches. I did make a shield that protects the burners and that did help quite a bit. The lid thing fascinates me. The entire pan boils like crazy (even with all burners set on low) with a flat lid left open on the corners and there is a ton of steam but clearly we are getting a lot of condensation that is dripping back into the pan. To be honest, I'm not sure if I have ever really tried it without the lid (let it go for any length of time) as the only parts of the pan that boil are directly over the burners. It just didn't seem like enough of a boil and didn't appear to be that much steam. But boil and evaporation are different animals so it can't hurt to do a test.

[happy thoughts]

I It just didn't seem like enough of a boil and didn't appear to be that much steam.

A covered pot will always boil harder and faster but you need to let steam escape. Any water that drips back into the pan will require extra energy to boil it off again. It seems to me you are paying twice to get rid of the same water. For that reason, I'm not sure you've gained anything in the end using a lid. You also don't need a hard boil to evaporate and reduce the volume of sap. Some of the nicest syrup I've made was done for the most part in open crockpots where the sap never got much higher than 155*F. And many others including myself have reduced sap by placing pans of it on wood stoves, adding humidity to the air and getting a bonus of concentrated sap. Slow? Sure and not what I'm recommending to get any quantity of syrup but it just shows you don't need the vigorous boils those with the real rigs prefer. Slow and steady can get you to the same end.

[Rangdale]

Thanks for your input and suggestions, I'm going to give it a try without a lid and see what happens. Also working on a lid with a fan in the center that should slightly decrease the pressure in the pan as well as help evacuate the steam. Not sure if this will get me anything or not but we had the stuff kicking around work so it will be fun to try.

[happy thoughts]

Can't hurt to give it a try. You'll never know what will work or not unless you give it a test. It's certainly no crazier than making syrup in crockpots lol.

Good luck and keep us posted:) Hope your season is long and productive this year!

[Super Sapper]

Sounds like a hood would be the best option here. It would allow the harder boil and also channel any condensate away.

[Rangdale]

Took your advice Happy Thoughts and did a bunch of experiments with lids this past weekend. I am going to punch myself in the face for not really trying it without the lid last year. When I got the pan and first tried it out I never really gave not using a lid a real chance. It just didn't look like it was boiling enough. And when we put the lid on and turned it a little to let the steam out, the whole pan would boil like crazy. Well, tried it both ways and with no lid we added better than a gallon/hour of evaporation rate. DOH!! Thinking of how many extra hours and dollars of propane we needlessly spent last year!!

On another note, came up with a pretty cool pre-heater design which I hope will help. Think we spent a lot of extra time last year adding cold sap and waiting another 3-5 minutes for the pan to start boiling again.

[claystroup]

Anyone ever try to hook up to the natural gas supply at their house like a permanent outside gas grill? Do they make those gas burners set up to burn natural gas? Natural gas is a lot cheaper than those 20 pd propane tanks. Clay

[Cedar Eater]

Most gas grills and other propane burners would not get enough energy from natural gas to give you a clean burn. At the very least, they would need a new orifice and the way most of them are designed, the orifice can't be changed. If you get a burner specifically designed for natural gas, then it would also have to operate at the same pressure that house appliances use. Getting a burner from a natgas water heater might work.

[mellondome]

Anyone ever try to hook up to the natural gas supply at their house like a permanent outside gas grill? Do they make those gas burners set up to burn natural gas? Natural gas is a lot cheaper than those 20 pd propane tanks. Clay

How big of pans are you boiling on? I use natural gas under my 2x6

[TOMWOLVES]

Howdy Karen, This will be my first time trying to make Maple Syrup, and I am going to be using a Turkey deep fryer, my question is, how many 20lb tanks of propane will I need to let say boil down 20 gal of sap? I have many Maple trees, but I just want to see if I can do this before I make my evaporator out of a 55 gallon drum. Thank you very much for any advise you may give me. I asked one guy that made a video, his answer to me was " You would be surprised how many tanks you will use", I am still wondering about how many tanks I will need. again thank you!

[mspina14]

I went through about 5 propane tanks boiling about 40 gallons of sap on my turkey fryer 2 years ago. So I'd guess 20 gallons would take about 2 1/2 tanks.

I boiled in a 5 gallon stainless steel stock pot at the time.

Only did that for a year before I realized I would go broke unless I switched to burning wood.:o

Mark

[Zucker Lager]

Most gas grills and other propane burners would not get enough energy from natural gas to give you a clean burn. At the very least, they would need a new orifice and the way most of them are designed, the orifice can't be changed. If you get a burner specifically designed for natural gas, then it would also have to operate at the same pressure that house appliances use. Getting a burner from a natgas water heater might work.

Hey Cedar:
I've always thought about using a set of burners from an old furnace. Salvage the burners and manifold and make up a stand for that????? Could even use two sets back to back for a square pan to cover all the area of the pan. I use wood now but for someone looking to boil on LP or NG that might be the trick? Jay

[Cedar Eater]

Hey Cedar:
I've always thought about using a set of burners from an old furnace. Salvage the burners and manifold and make up a stand for that????? Could even use two sets back to back for a square pan to cover all the area of the pan. I use wood now but for someone looking to boil on LP or NG that might be the trick? Jay

I don't see why that wouldn't work, as long as you have the correct orifice for the fuel. But I'm not an HVAC guy, so I can't speak to whether there would be any issues with how the burners were boxed in. If I had access to natgas, I would consider it.

[Snappyssweets]

First two years (15 and 16) I used propane.
I had side burner on grill and turkey fryer both. Used two large pressure canners for boiling pans.

Cost for me to do 350 Gallons first year was $118 in propane.
Cost last year was $90 for boiling down just under 300

Both years I could not keep up with the boiling and had to bring some inside to do on stove too with multiple pans going in house.

Found a restaurant gone out of business this past summer and picked up some large deep buffet stainless pans. Also got some block cheap 80 blocks $20.
Just built a block arch for this season. Will be using wood for first time this year.

Propane works its just nopt efficient if your doing large amounts like I have.
Also this year keeping very little syrup turning it into sugar mostly.

[Kawierider]

Mike,

It depends on how many taps, and what you have available to you both in material and time.

Turkey fryers work, so do bonfires and cheap pans from Walmart (which is how I started). I currently use a bonfire underneath a 55glon drum that I cut in half ( it held organic food product before I used it-no chemicals!). I do 100 gallons in a Good long day. Preheat with one of my old pans set half over my fire. I finish the syrup on the stove in my kitchen for better control.

[Run Forest Run!]

Howdy Karen, This will be my first time trying to make Maple Syrup, and I am going to be using a Turkey deep fryer, my question is, how many 20lb tanks of propane will I need to let say boil down 20 gal of sap? I have many Maple trees, but I just want to see if I can do this before I make my evaporator out of a 55 gallon drum. Thank you very much for any advise you may give me. I asked one guy that made a video, his answer to me was " You would be surprised how many tanks you will use", I am still wondering about how many tanks I will need. again thank you!

Hi Tom, sorry for delay in replying. I didn't notice your question until now.

Each propane tank gives me 10-12 hours of boiling time and I will end up with 1/2 gallon of syrup each time. With decent sugar content, that's what your 20 gallons of sap should yield. This year propane is running around $10 for a 20lb tank, so a gallon of finished syrup will cost me $20. I have a cement block evaporator set up in my firepit for when I'm inundated with sap, but 90% of my boiling is done with propane. It's very civilized and I hang out in the garage instead of outside in the snow and rain. :lol: Hope that helps!

[TOMWOLVES]

Guess I'm going to go with wood for fuel. A fellow on here said he had problems with the rubber hose melting on the propane tank and caused a issue. I built a evaporator out of a 55 gallon drum. maybe next year I will try propane if I can find a better hook up. thanks for your help and will keep it in consideration.
15531

[KTFD14]

15579

I run Natural gas with a 24" x 36" stainless pan, my burners are mounted into 3/4" black pipe drilled and taped with brass nozzles, The nozzles are Thunder Group Jet Burner nozzle (Natural Gas)
there is 2 rows with 12 nozzles per row, Gas valves control each row of burners.
In the center between the burners nozzles is 1/2" copper pipe with 4 runs that is used for pre heating the sap (about 200 F. into the pan) I average 5-6 Gal per hour evaporate.
Sap starts at a 5 gallon bucket above pan to a 1/4 turn valve that is used to adjust the flow into pre warmer (1/2" copper pipe) then squirts sap into pan.

My finish is done in a 2.5 gallon stainless pot to finish @ 62 - 65 Brix
Went to plastic syrup bottles this year, as many consumers did not return the glass canning jars.

[Urban Hillbilly]

I used to boil with propane and turkey fryers but I switched to natural gas. The last time I used propane I went through fourteen 20 pound tanks to make 5 gallons of syrup... that's better than $50/gallon of syrup in propane costs alone. Fortunately I have natural gas running to my house and I tapped into that and run a 1 inch line to my cinder block arch with a pair of 2x3 pans I had a local welder put together. I have 4 32 tip jet burners which can push a million BTU. Much, much cheaper and evaporate at least 10 gallons an hour.

[odave]

I have a small cinder block arch in a converted fire pit that I augment with a steam pan sitting on a propane burner. It really helped maintain the boil on the fire pans. Like Run Forest Run, if I have a small amount to boil I will just use propane.

Here's my arch from last year, before I added the propane "preheater".

15692

This year I've been too busy to tap, and my silvers have budded out already.