Help with starting new gravity line tubing

[huntingken111]

I have searched and read some threads on gravity lines and am still confused. I now empty about 148 buckets and bags and that is tiring. Next year I would like to do gravity lines if farmer lets me do it. My question is How big of mainline do run to get vaccum some of my trees are up on a flat but I can park below hill about 10 foot drop from flat my furthest tree would be about 40 ft from bottom of hill I can put abou 50 to60 taps up there and can they all be on one main? Other question is on the flat parts can you run gravity lines there would be about 20 to 40 taps that I could put in different spots around land and run them to 55 gallon drums and then pull up to them to suck sap into truck. that would give me about 10 different stops but I could do over two hundred taps next year I just dont know how. it would be too expensive to run gas powered vaccuum. Any help or direction of what to look for in forum would help Thank you in advance

[lakeview maple]

Huntingken ,I think you might be a little confused with mainline and lateral line.You could run a mainline 3/4" or 1" line and have laterals of 5/16th coming into it.I wouldnt put 40 plus taps on 1 lateral ,I would want to spread it out to no more than 10 or so for gravity and if you were to hook up vacuum you would want even less per lateral.I would try to find the low point of the property,and see if you could get a mainline to empty there with your laterals coming in along the way.Hope this helps ,Al

[unc23win]

Yea if you can get to the lowest point to collect and can get all the lines to run there that would be your best option. If not then try to get it to as few collectiing spots as possible. You would want your mainline to have the same slope the whole way down. The flatter parts make it harder because you normally have to have the line higher, but in your case if the flatter part is stepped up 10 feet that will help you. Like lakeview said 10-15 taps on a lateral gravity and 5-7 on vacuum. 3/4" or 1" mainline 3/4" is large enough some prefer 1".

[PerryW]

You really don't get any natural vacuum from a 3/4" mainline. You only get natural vacuum when you string together 10 or more maples on a 5/16" lateral line and things are running good. It has to run good enough for the sap to form columns of liquid in the lines as it flows to produce natural vacuum. If the sap is only trickling along the bottom of the pipe (like water in a getter), it will produce no vacuum.

personally, if you are staying gravity-only, I wouldn't hesitate to put 25 or 30 taps on a lateral line. I have as many as 40 woods trees on a long lateral and I have never seen the line overloaded. ( I can check that the line is not overloaded by pulling a tap and verifying the presence of natural vacuum).

It would be better to try to tie some of your laterals together (with a 3/4" mainline) to avoid having to make 10 separate stops. But I'm guessing you thing the land is too flat, and there is insufficient slope to then them together?? Keep in mind, that when you suspend a mainline from a wire and pull it tight, you don' need much pitch. By tapping the furthest trees high, you can sometimes get the sap to flow a long way and avoid the hassle of many collection barrels.

[harrison6jd]

this is my first year on tubing and some will not agree with my method but i will say it works for me. i have 2 mainlines each with 45 or more on it. all 5/16 tubing. the sap flows really well. there must be good natural vacuum because there are air bubbles in the line all the way down to the tank. next season i will put a gauge on it to have a reference point. i have a 200' plus run from end to end with a 45' change in elevation. the system is simple as i only use 1 size tubing and 3 different fittings. i cant take credit for this setup as i followed the advice another sapper here on the site. thanks guys.

[huntingken111]

Ok think I understand Most my trees can handle four taps so I rig them togather and put two to four trees on one lateral line then run that to main line and so forth. Is my 3/4 or 1 inch line pvc or tubing like the 5/16 and where can I buy all the tubing and fittings I think I can drain into a 250 gallon tank Thank you for the help

[unc23win]

You have to size the trees accordingly 10" diameter 1 tap, 20" diameter 2 taps, and so on basically 1 tap for every 10" of diameter. You can use either 3/4" or 1" line and you can either use sap line, which you can buy from a dealer or black water pipe that you can get at a hardware store. Black water line is cheaper by .20-.30 cents a foot some say it warms the sap up which helps in thawing but can make the sap warmer which doesnt make it keep as good. Your choice.

The easiest way to attach lateral lines 5/16" to the mainline is by using saddles. You drill a hole in the mainline it has a gasket and nipple that fit in the hole then it has a ratchet clamp that fits around the line to make it tight and stay in place.

A good place to see all the fittings and such is http://www.bascommaple.com/ not saying you have to buy from them there are many dealers, but you can see pictures there. The categories are under catalog and then the left side of the screen Tubing is 5/16" Tubing fittings 5/16" fittings then there is mainline and mainline fittings. I like the IPL saddles I just started using them this year I like the stationary entry fitting and the fact that you only have to sue a 5/16" hole. I also use the CDL semi rigid tubing for everything laterals and drops. You'll notice Bascoms says the same thing.

good luck!

[rayi]

May add for trhe laterals use a ridgid or semi ridgid tubing. The felxible stuff streachs so much it will need constant tightening

[kiteflyingeek]

There's a MI supplier that carries all the tubing and connection supplies: sugarbushsupplies.com (http://www.sugarbushsupplies.com/). They are a little south of Lansing. Hope that helps.

--andrew

[huntingken111]

Thank you all for the advice collecting 190 gallons from sap bags and pouring into 5 gallons buckets is a pain next year will be tubing

[Dill]

One big question is are you going to be taking it down every year or not? If you are than don't bother with mainline. My brother's gravity setup we put a collection tank or barrel in the low spot and run mutiple 5/16 lines to it. Some runs have 10 per, some have 20-30.

[steve J]

My lines ran horrible this year and the section that I had to reconfigured due to Iren damage I could see the lines were full of sap yet they were not getting to the main line there are about 50 taps on this and its a hill side? only way for me to reduce the taps running on that lateral is to bring the main up the hill but that would be a fairly steep pitch I an I thought mains were to be at 4 to 5 degree pitch?

[PerryW]

My lines ran horrible this year and the section that I had to reconfigured due to Iren damage I could see the lines were full of sap yet they were not getting to the main line there are about 50 taps on this and its a hill side? only way for me to reduce the taps running on that lateral is to bring the main up the hill but that would be a fairly steep pitch I an I thought mains were to be at 4 to 5 degree pitch?

Mainlines are 4-5 degrees MINIMUM pitch. No problem running steeper.

[PerryW]

this is my first year on tubing and some will not agree with my method but i will say it works for me. i have 2 mainlines each with 45 or more on it. all 5/16 tubing. the sap flows really well. there must be good natural vacuum because there are air bubbles in the line all the way down to the tank. next season i will put a gauge on it to have a reference point. i have a 200' plus run from end to end with a 45' change in elevation. the system is simple as i only use 1 size tubing and 3 different fittings. i cant take credit for this setup as i followed the advice another sapper here on the site. thanks guys.

I also have as many as 40 taps on a (gravity) lateral and have never seen the line overloaded. I can check this by pulling a tap near the bottom of the lateral (during a good sap run). If sap squirts out, the line is overloaded. It it still produces a detectable natural vacuum, the line is NOT overloaded.

[steve J]

Perry are you saying if I want to run a section of Main line up the steep before branching over that a more drastic pitch will not cause turbulence once it hits the lower area were the line is only 5 percent pitched?

[74maple farmer]

I have a question this is my first time using tuning , I anchored at my begging tree and ran a lateral line connecting 15 trees to itmy question is at my anchor tree I wrapped the line around the tree and used a tee to connect to that and ran to the next tree , I inserted a drop line in between. I noticed that the sap started to build up at the beginning and hasesnt started to flow . Is this typical or do I need air to be introduced at the beginning of the line or will it just work it's way down naturally, this is gravity by the way

[Pibster]

Keep it airtight and the tree will produce sap longer. As long as you have some slope, it should start working flowing.

[Sugarmaker]

We gathered 780 gallons of sap from 600 ish taps on short run 5/16 tubing Wednesday. 32 stops along the road. Gravity system.
Have been gathering using this system for years I got tired servicing 400 buckets. Let me know if I can help.
There is not a supplier that designs systems for folks doing this. We needed to develop a custom tubing system using components that exist. Works for us. Its not for everyone. We typically make a quart per tap. Basically tight and down hill on good trees and you can make syrup with the best of them!
Regards,
Chris