Dramatic increase to GPH

[Maplesapper]

I'm just one hobby guy with little kids and 150 Taps- overflowing in sap !!

Cinder Block Arch , 2x4 Pan, 16"x24" pre heat pan on arch ( gets boiling then hand feed to big pan )
3 speed fan as a blower.
7" stove pipe- 16' tall

Whats the ONE thing I can do to dramatically increase GPH ?

Deeper arch that holds more wood?
Increase chimney pipe diameter to 12"?
Bigger Pan, or add another 2x4 pan?

Thanks for the help-
Signed-
On a budget !!

[Outdoorsman0490]

Let me preface this by saying I don't have the experience to answer to your question.

But, I should be running a setup just like yours by the end of the week but with 8" stove pipe 8' tall. What is your gym now? What is it without the blower, thanks.

[briansickler]

When we first started on a block arch we had a raised flue pan (2x4). We didn't have the pans plumbed together. We just had a valve on the flue pan and when the syrup pan got down a little we would draw some out of the flu pan and dump it into the front pan. A flue pan will help you the most. You will get such a rapid boil with all of the extra surface area that you will be amazed.

Brian

[PerryW]

When we first started on a block arch we had a raised flue pan (2x4). We didn't have the pans plumbed together. We just had a valve on the flue pan and when the syrup pan got down a little we would draw some out of the flu pan and dump it into the front pan. A flue pan will help you the most. You will get such a rapid boil with all of the extra surface area that you will be amazed.

Brian

Agree with Brian. More surface area is the way to go.

[michiganphil]

More wood will really only let you go longer between firings.
If you're getting a rapid boil over the whole pan, you'll just be pushing HEAT out of a larger stack. WASTED ENERGY.

My opinion...add more surface area.

[Big_Eddy]

Nothing you can do with a 2x4 flat pan to keep up with 150 trees other than put in lots of hours. You might be getting 10 gals/hr with your blower. Even if you optimize heat transfer - you're not going past 12-15 gals/ hour and that still means 30-50 hours of boiling in a good flow week.

I assume you've already done the usual things.
-Fill in the back 2' of your arch with blocks / sand / rubble so that there is only 2" of air gap under the pan.
-Install a door on the front of the arch.
-Run 1" to 1 1/2" deep
-Use small dry wood and add small amounts often, not a pile all at once.
-Use a grate to allow air under the fire and clean out the ash regularly
-Locate your arch out of the direct wind, and definitely don't allow rain in.

Keep-Up Options in order of expense and effectiveness
-Dump some sap
-Stay up late and boil all night.
-Add another 2x2 pan behind or in front of your 2x4 pan and lengthen the arch.
-Build a second parallel arch and run 2 at once.
-Replace the 2x4 flat pan with a 2x2 flat pan and a 2x4 flue pan
-Buy an RO.

Your Suggestions
-Deeper Arch for more wood - nope - won't help - you want a small hot fire fed often.
- 12" Chimney - 7" is about right for a 2' wide arch. Bigger will just send more heat up the chimney.
- Bigger Pan - More surface area is the way to go.

I've been there - I ran a 2x3 flat pan with 100 trees for 20+ years. Long nights and long days too. When I got behind I always boiled the freshest sap and dumped anything beyond 100 gals.

[not_for_sale]

Spend $300 on an RO with residential membranes - will cut your boiling time by 75 percent. It will work when you aren't there.

[Maplesapper]

Let me preface this by saying I don't have the experience to answer to your question.

But, I should be running a setup just like yours by the end of the week but with 8" stove pipe 8' tall. What is your gym now? What is it without the blower, thanks.

The first hour and the last hour are a loss, but at full steam: no pun intended; we get an honest 15 gph.
I boil with about 5" in the pan for safety, and realize I can increase the gph by boiling less.
BUt will all the helping hands, I would hate to be distracted and boil dry

[Maplesapper]

Thanks Big Eddy-
The simplest and most cost effective seems to be add another pan.


Nothing you can do with a 2x4 flat pan to keep up with 150 trees other than put in lots of hours. You might be getting 10 gals/hr with your blower. Even if you optimize heat transfer - you're not going past 12-15 gals/ hour and that still means 30-50 hours of boiling in a good flow week.

I assume you've already done the usual things.
-Fill in the back 2' of your arch with blocks / sand / rubble so that there is only 2" of air gap under the pan.
-Install a door on the front of the arch.
-Run 1" to 1 1/2" deep
-Use small dry wood and add small amounts often, not a pile all at once.
-Use a grate to allow air under the fire and clean out the ash regularly
-Locate your arch out of the direct wind, and definitely don't allow rain in.

Keep-Up Options in order of expense and effectiveness
-Dump some sap
-Stay up late and boil all night.
-Add another 2x2 pan behind or in front of your 2x4 pan and lengthen the arch.
-Build a second parallel arch and run 2 at once.
-Replace the 2x4 flat pan with a 2x2 flat pan and a 2x4 flue pan
-Buy an RO.

Your Suggestions
-Deeper Arch for more wood - nope - won't help - you want a small hot fire fed often.
- 12" Chimney - 7" is about right for a 2' wide arch. Bigger will just send more heat up the chimney.
- Bigger Pan - More surface area is the way to go.

I've been there - I ran a 2x3 flat pan with 100 trees for 20+ years. Long nights and long days too. When I got behind I always boiled the freshest sap and dumped anything beyond 100 gals.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

The first hour and the last hour are a loss, but at full steam: no pun intended; we get an honest 15 gph.
I boil with about 5" in the pan for safety, and realize I can increase the gph by boiling less.
BUt will all the helping hands, I would hate to be distracted and boil dry

wow 5" thats a lot of sap to heat up. deff lower your depth. I would go 3/4" but thats me. go down to at least 1-1/4 thats a very safe number. Like the others said either more surface area or a ro.

[Greg Freeze]

I agree with Flat Lander...3/4" you need to be on your toes, but 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" will help you out. I have a 2x4 flat pan and maxed out I get 17/18 gph. But, like Big Eddy said, nothing you can do with your current pan will give you a dramatic increase. Sounds to me like the most cost efficient increase in production would be an RO. Good Luck!

Greg

[jrgagne99]

+1 on building a homemade RO. See my thread or not_for_sale's for ideas.

Also, +1 on running a shallower pan. For a 2x4, every inch of depth is about 5 gallons, or 20 minutes of boiling (at 15 gph). A depth of 2" seems more than reasonable, even with little ones to look after while boiling.