feeding 14% sap

[bairdswift]

could you feed high percent sap into a small arch? i have a 20"x60" H2O arch with a drop flue pan and syrup pan and wondering if i would be able to feed high percent sap into in with the help of a RO. this year i have 3 times the taps i can handle. im selling sap this year but hoping to add more taps and trying to find a way to process all the sap next year myself. so its buy a RO or buy a bigger arch.i think i would rather buy an RO to feed my evap i have now because my arch is only 2 seasons old. what would you do? i hear of people running 1500-2000 taps on a 2x6 with the help of a RO.

[PerryFamily]

I am currently running approx 1100 taps ( 350 on vac ) on a 2x6. I RO my sap to 10% and have had no problems. Just keep in mind, as I have learned, things happen a lot faster running concentrate. You also have to be able to handle the amount of syrup you will be making. Only thing I have noticed is I have to drain and clean the syrup pan after every boil. The sand removes fairly easy and I dont want to burn it on. I plan on on keeping the evaporator for one more expansion next year. Unless I can find a sweet 3x8 or 3x10.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

i dont see why you couldnt I have reached 10% ONCE AND i DIDNT HAVE ANY ISSUES (dam capse lock sorry)
I heard of a guy with 2500 on vac on a 2x6 up north some where he is running 20%. Like the big ro guys say stuff happens quicker with concentrate, I dont drink as much as I did last year, nervous and drawing syrup more often.

[bairdswift]

how much water can you take up of sap? say you have 1000gal of sap and you run it through an RO what will you be left with? i know it depends on how high you push it.would i have to worry about making syrup in the whole syrup pan rather then just the last pass? would running deeper help this? are there other things in missing with having 1000 taps?

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

how much water can you take up of sap? say you have 1000gal of sap and you run it through an RO what will you be left with? i know it depends on how high you push it.would i have to worry about making syrup in the whole syrup pan rather then just the last pass? would running deeper help this? are there other things in missing with having 1000 taps?
with a commercial ro its about a 70/30 split, so you would have approx 300 gal to boil. I figure my home built ro takes out 56% of the water one pass, i just recirc until ready to boil.
you deff run deeper Im between 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 deep

[wiam]

h2o says on their website not to take over 75% in one pass without harming membrane. This is with a one membrane machine. In series 2 can take 78%, 3 can take 80%, 4 can take 82%

Lot of info here http://maple.h2oinnovation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/H2O_Innovation_Maple_Membrane_Training_2011_ENG.pd f

[PerryFamily]

Being this is my first year with an RO, and am by no means an expert but these are some of the changes I have made:

I do run my front pan deeper, closer to 2".

I drain and scrub the front pan after every boil. Builds a lot of sand and would rather clean than scorch or burn.

I feel I do tend to make syrup across the front pan ( 2 compartment ), at least at first draw until everything levels out. It is not uncommon to fill my draw off pail to the brim.

As far as volume, I was told these figures to simplify: 1000 gallons of sap @ 2%, will yield you 250 gallons of 8%.
(please correct me if wrong )

2 weekends ago we brought in 1200 gallons of 1.6% +/-, in no time ( 1.5-2 hrs ) we made 200 galons +/- of 10%.
5 hours and 25 gallons later, we were done. Truly an amazing machine.

Hope this helps as I too am still learning.

[bairdswift]

So some things I might need to think about would be more draw off pails maybe a extra frunt pan and a way to filter and store more syrup at a faster rate? And several tanks just to use with the ro

[PerryFamily]

Yes you are right on all accounts.

i feed the ro with cage tanks linked together. I re circulate into one of them till my sap gets to 10%, then send it to the head tank. All of my RO setup is temporary till this summer. It was plumbed with 1.5" sch 40 PVC for the feed and 3/4" poly for the outlet side. Had it hooked up in one day.

I have a 600gal galvanized tank for permeate water.( cheap and easy to come by for permeate anyway )

I went from flat filters to a 7" short bank press and have had great results. ( flats were too slow )

Now I pack in 5gal containers to re pack for retail later, and 30gal drums for bulk sales.( less handling of small containers)

I have been super happy with my decision so far. In my situation I can not go any bigger than a 3x10 max but have the potential for several thousand + taps, so the ro allows me to do that.

I have seen NO difference in flavor of any kind, if anything I am making more lighter syrup with the RO, and the press makes a crystal clear product.

If anything people are amazed at the amount of pure water removed, how efficient my whole process is and how little wood we have used to produce over 100 gallons of syrup so far.

It is sweet!! ( pun totally intended )

[Russell Lampron]

could you feed high percent sap into a small arch? i have a 20"x60" H2O arch with a drop flue pan and syrup pan and wondering if i would be able to feed high percent sap into in with the help of a RO. this year i have 3 times the taps i can handle. im selling sap this year but hoping to add more taps and trying to find a way to process all the sap next year myself. so its buy a RO or buy a bigger arch.i think i would rather buy an RO to feed my evap i have now because my arch is only 2 seasons old. what would you do? i hear of people running 1500-2000 taps on a 2x6 with the help of a RO.


So some things I might need to think about would be more draw off pails maybe a extra frunt pan and a way to filter and store more syrup at a faster rate? And several tanks just to use with the ro

One thing you have to watch out for when running high concentrate is making syrup in the flue pan. I have 700 taps on vacuum and 100 buckets with an RO and 2x6. I generally concentrate to the 16% range and draw off about 6 gallons of syrup in an hour. I am having the syrup in the flue pan problem. The result is caramelized sap in the flue pan and really dark syrup at the draw off with lighter grade flavor.

I am just putting the finishing touches on an air injection system and hope that this helps. The next boil will be the first one with the air injection. If this solves the problem I can go ahead with plans for a bigger RO and to keep my 2x6. I'm not sure where the concentrate percentage borderline is to not have this problem. I didn't have the problem at 8% but went from that to the mid teens when I switched from single pass to recircing.

[jrgagne99]

One thing you have to watch out for when running high concentrate is making syrup in the flue pan.

I'm running into a similar problem on my setup. I only boil 6% from my homemade RO, but the drop-flue section of my (homemade) hybrid pan has been getting progressively sweeter over the course of the season. Right now, it's so concentrated that it's boiling at about 1-2 degrees above 212F. It's partly due to my front section (flat) being slightly undersized. It's only 8" long vs a 32" long back section that has of 5"-deep drop-flues. I'll probably need to run with some raw sap for an hour or two to knock down the concenctration in the back pan a little.