Man have I been doing it Wrong??!!

[DonMcJr]

Ok now almost EVERY time I boil I kept thinking... wouldn't it make more sense to be drawing off Syrup on the valve at the BACK of the pan near the Stack cause it would be hotter there?

So I looked at the instructions and it says this:

The reservoir pan should be placed six inches from the front of the
boiling pan with the feed valve installed on the right hand side of the reservoir pan. You will be
making syrup on the side opposite the feed valve.

So...I think I have been doing it wrong! With the reservoir pan 6 inches from the front and feeding on the right side means my draw-off would be back left, by the stack! No wonder I have had a heck of a time drawing off!

Am I seeing this right now? Here's a Pic of how I have been doing it which I now think is wrong!

[bees1st]

I hate directions like that ! Makes me think to much .Some producers like to draw off where it's hotter, i.e. closer to the flue pan . There is a greater chance of burning your syrup. But on a rig like yours I think it makes alot of sense. You want to be a little more careful not to fire just before you're about to draw off syrup.

[DonMcJr]

I guess my main question is this: "Is the front considered where the fire door is? "

I would think so...

[bees1st]

Aya, sure enough

[wnybassman]

I would have done it the same way you did it. My pan is the hottest in the firebox area.

[Ausable]

OK - In an Electric Generating Plant Boiler built for a Base Load Operation it is all about being efficient. Most Bang for the Buck. You keep the fire in the Boiler - Not in the Economizer - Not in the Air Heater - Not in the Duct Work and for sure - Not in the Stack. That is a waste of fuel and improper use of air and asking for real trouble. My point is ---- the hottest area should be in the Fire Box section of the Arch and that should be where the combustion is at. The exhaust stack gases left after combustion pass through the arch and under the pans - sharing the remaining heat and up the stack to the outside world. But - It is not a perfect World and our rigs are crude at best - even the shiny ones - So we must adjust our air and fuel and keep the fire under the Syrup Pans and hot as possible (the Front is the Fuel Door - Fire Box Area) - Now I know in making Syrup - Everyone has their own ideas and their way is best - To Experiment and looking for an easier way is what makes us North Americans. But - A fire in the Stack is not Efficient - it should be in the fire box. - LOL - An Old Boiler Operator -----Mike-----

[grinch5010]

When I had a half pint I always drew from the front. It worked fine.

[bowhunter]

Mike,

You're right on. When I see video of fire coming out the stack of an evaporator I cringe because it reminds me of the early days in my career when we were doing energy audits on furnaces and boilers. If you've got fire going out the stack I don't want to be responsible for wood supply.

Dave

[bowtie]

in flat single pan designs like the half-pint and my mason hobby evap you draw off i in the front opposite of your feed. this is because of the gradient set up. if you draw off towards the back your "syrup" will be less dense, or the syrup in the front of the pan will be over finished. it is not easy to make draws on single pan designs and get just finished syrup, you always seem to get unfinished because when you open your valve to draw your draw usually excedes your feed rate and you wind up with some unfinished syrup. when i was boiling last night i tried to draw at certain intervals based on the boil in the last section. not that i have done much but you can get it pretty close by the look of the bubbling, i use a finisher anyways so i am just trying to get it close and not let the near finished syrup build up in the pan this generally leads to darker syrup, which i personally like but light tends to sell better. not sure why your boil is heavier toward the back it should be just the opposite, my feed section generally is boiling about 1/2 to 5/8 back with my middle section having the most intense boil at the front the decreasing toward the back and my alst section is just the opposite. it should be hottest right over the fire.do you have your evap ramped up behind the firebox?this forces the heat and flames up to the pan. the edges of my pan tend to boil less vigoriously than the middles because the firebrick and archboard "insulates" it.
don, next you boil post video of it when you are getting ready to draw. this will allow the expereinced guys to help out. i wanted to get video of my evap last night but by the time i got home from collecting and transfering my kids were ready for bed, and my oldest boy bought his I-PAD with his own money and i am not allowed to use it!!maybe tonight.

[bowtie]

long story short, your picture is the correct way!

[CBOYER]

if i look at Leader page, it is a flue side drawing unit:
http://www.leaderevaporator.com/p-285-leader-half-pint-evaporator.aspx

But it is the only place i had seen this way. Look at Maple guys Evaporators pages, CDL, Lapierre, Dominion & Grimm., are all drawing at fire door end.
http://www.mapleguys.com/index.php?category=42

[jrgagne99]

Personally, I never understood these preheaters, as sold. This is because almost all of the condensed steam drips right back into the pan, so if you ask me, the net efficiency increase is near zero. If you can capture the drips and divert them away from your pan, that's fine. That is exactly how tube-style preheaters work, not to mention steam-aways. Thermodynamics doesn't lie. A preheater sitting on top of your main pan is useless if the drips go right back in.

[smokeyamber]

+1 on preheater... of course on homemade setups that's how it ends up until you get to a nice preheater hood:D. I do think it still helps some to not kill the boil with ice cold sap... ;)

[DonMcJr]

Ok here's a Video from Sunday night. Boiling point was 210.3 F that day and I hit drawoff about a half hour later. It just seems the rolling boil on the last Syrup pan is all toward the back. I have it bricked sides and back and the Wall at the back too...


http://youtu.be/76uMIYHFFHI


Also if I am drawing off in the right spot, the front, then why does the instructions say to put the preheater pan 6 inches from the front and drizzle from the right side valve? The way the pan is set up then the draw would have to go reverse of my video with my Preheater pan forward and drizzling in front right, draw back left.

As the pan sits in the video there's 2 draw off valves. One front right and one back left...

Hmmmm...

I did pull off pretty near syrup I think and I plan on finishing it on the stove pretty soon here cause my Bottles came today so I'll tell you how close it was to Syrup later today!

Thanks everyone for your opinions and help!

[johnallin]

I ran my 1/2 pint the same as you are set up now. I did cantelever the sap pan as far back as I could to get it as close to the stack as I could and to minimize the condensate from dripping back in. Don't remember if I had brackets to hold it up or not, but do remember catching lots of heat from the stack and openning up the pan.
Made lots of nice syrup on that rig.
7362

[Burnt sap]

Don I have a new 2x4 pan with a preheater looks a lot like your set up my draw off front left as you look at it. Front of any wood stove or boiler is the working end. IE the end with the doors or burner. My preheater fills from the right rear as you look at it. It works great and pushes sap through great.

[DonMcJr]

Ok guess I have been doing it right then. I pulled it off in Batches when it hit 217 F and had to boil it more on the stove and it wasn't Syrup til 220 F. BUT alot faster and easier than the Turkey Fryer!

[SeanD]

Don,

In your next boil, leave it on until you hit 220. It's even faster and easier than boiling on the stove.

Sean

[cadocter]

Don, the directions might say that because the half pint pans used to have 4 channels in them, not 3 as they do now. Just food for thought...

[Lee]

Hi Don,
My understanding is to reverse the flow each time you boil by moving the preheater to opposite end of pan.So it would be 6" from front sap dripping in front right and drawing off pan back left.Next boil rotate preheater and put 6" from back so that it is dripping sap in back left and you'd be drawing off front right.
Boil has been the same rate for me whether I had preheater towards front or back.
Lee

[DonMcJr]

Ok thanks lee! Moving the preheater is alot easier than removing a pan full of sweet and turning it around.

I'm going to try that next boil.

[Lee]

Don I just watched your video and think you should definitely rotate sap pan so valve is dripping as far back of syrup pan as possible.I think you'll see a more consistent boil.

[DonMcJr]

Ok cool got it Lee! Thanks again!

[jrgagne99]

On a half-pint evaporator, you're probably not generating enough niter to justify changing directions between boils. One should strive to preserve the gradient after shut-down and between boils so that the overall time that sap spends under heat before converting to syrup is minimized. There are two common ways to do this. First is to fabricate baffles to isolate the channels between boils and prevent back-diffusion of sugar. (Does Leader make/sell these for the Half-Pint?) Second method is to draw-off a good amount of sweet during shutdown, and then save it aside. As you start the next boil, slowly pour in the sweet on your take-off end to re-establish the gradient more quickly.

Also, it is better if you can put your warming pan on blocks and then tip it back so the condensate drips don't go back into the pan. There is no sense in evaporating water twice!

[gwcutter10]

I have a half pint pan on a homemade arch.. I took a heavy piece of c channel steel and welded it about 2 inches down from the top rail and about 6 inches in from the back wall... then i took a piece of sheet steel( flat side from a 275 oil drum) and put that in so there is a wall.... i have a 8 inch chimney pipe w/ a damper and now the flames have to go up and over and out instead of just out the chimney....hotter fire, better boil and less wood... i went through a lot of wood before i put the wall in.... make sure you use a heavy piece of steel not just a regular piece of angle iron... mine got so hot it made the angle iron melt and sag in the middle.....i also double insulated the arch with durock cement board and put scrap strips in between the sheets so air can circulate and the outside of the arch isn't so hot... the iput the brick back in... at the hottest fire of the night i could hold my finger on the arch for 10 seconds....adjust the damper and your air and you will be fine... i boiled about 45 gallons in roughly 6 hrs before i had to shutdown....i flood my pan and draw off what is close to syrup... when i re fire i drain from the feedside and dump the close to syrup back in the finish side....i try to keep 1/2 to 3/4 of a inch in the pans when i boil.....

[DonMcJr]

Flipped the preheater pan so its dripping in the way back left corner. Also noticed thanks to an old post on here with a photo that I had my fire grate in wrong! I had the slots horizontal and switched it to vertical and wow! At 1 inch depth I am boiling so much its almos boiling oover in the middle!

Thanks everyone this boil is going much better!