Bucket spouts?????

[Paul VT]

So this is my third year of using 5/16 blue plastic bucket spouts. I am drilling 1.5 inches. In the last three years I have not had what I would call a "good run". Many years ago I used the 7/16 galvinized tin spouts and many times I would have buckets that would fill in a day. I have been lucky to see any that are half full. Any one out there using these 5/16 spouts that have had good or bad luck with getting sap from the trees? What are others using? I like the idea of drilling a smaller hole. But after three years of using 5/16 I am tempted to go bigger.
Any thoughts appreciated.

[Run Forest Run!]

Hey Paul. I didn't have any mega runs last year with my 5/16 spouts, but that must have only been because of the weird year we had last year. Over the weekend I had several of my buckets run over the top with sap, so that was encouraging to see. On the negative side, I've had trouble with those taps leaking and falling out. I bought some traditional 7/16 taps a week ago to try out this year. I want to be able to do some comparison between the two types but, like you, I also think it would be ideal to be able to get great results with drilling a smaller hole.

One thing I did a little differently than last year is that I drilled the hole just a little longer than 1.5. Maybe it will help, maybe not.

Keep us updated on your experience with these taps Paul. I'm still trying to figure out if I like these enough to keep using them.

[sugaringcrazy]

I bought 100 used blue plastic spouts this year. I'm also not that happy with them. Something I've noticed is that after a cold night they get frozen and have a hard time thawing out. Not all of them, but many of them. I was so bewildered because it was 2 in the afternoon, 42 outside and the taps on my lines were gushing, and so were many of the 40 7/16 metal spouts I have. I will say that 1/3 of the blue spouts were running. But, I felt like I was missing a good run! So I pulled a couple taps out, saw that there was ice in them. I blew the ice out, put them back in and sap came gushing out. This was probably a bad idea, because I know that this probably introduced more bacteria then I would of liked to, but I was frustrated. I do wonder if the hole in the spile is too small and has a tendency to freeze and clog... The verdict is out. It's only my first season with them, and it's still pretty early. I was probably too impatient, but...

[Paul VT]

Interesting to here about the ice in the spouts. I have seen some of this to. Keep the comments coming. And results as the season continues. I wonder if there has been any study done on these spouts?

[cncaboose]

We use all 5/16 taps and drill about 2 inches deep. On a good day many will be quite full or even overflowing.

[kiteflyingeek]

I used a 5/16" spile this year -- my first! I put about 3 feet of tubing on the (made for tubing) spile and put that into a hole in the side of a frosting bucket. I had over 2 gallons per day from some of the taps. Early on (early Feb around here), there were some trees that didn't produce more than a cup or two. But by the end (09-Mar), all the trees produced a gallon per tap per day for at least one run.

I drilled the holes between 1.5" and 2".

Hope that helps.

--andrew

[Paul VT]

Thanks for the info. But looking more for people using the blue 5/16 bucket spouts. Thanks

[Maplesapper]

Battery life is far greater drilling 5/16 then 7/16 holes.
To date our trees seems no different.
The plastic 7/16 taps I find we need to drill out the plastic hole at the bottom/back of the tube.
I wonder if retapping the back of the spiles might allow more flow ??

[Paul VT]

Battery life is far greater drilling 5/16 then 7/16 holes.
To date our trees seems no different.
The plastic 7/16 taps I find we need to drill out the plastic hole at the bottom/back of the tube.
I wonder if retapping the back of the spiles might allow more flow ??
That is one thing I wondered about? The hole in the blue spouts are in the bottom. And I think can easliy plug. I may try drilling out a few and try it. Thanks

[MustardSeedMum]

That is one thing I wondered about? The hole in the blue spouts are in the bottom. And I think can easliy plug. I may try drilling out a few and try it. Thanks

Did the drilling help? I have these spouts as well, and I am trying to figure out if it's my drilling or the spouts. Or probably a combo of both. I'm finding that if I have even a slight less-than-perfect hole, I'm almost guaranteed to have the sap peeing down the tree instead of into my buckets. I'm sick of seeing icefalls between my bucket and tree. :(

[Paul VT]

Did the drilling help? I have these spouts as well, and I am trying to figure out if it's my drilling or the spouts. Or probably a combo of both. I'm finding that if I have even a slight less-than-perfect hole, I'm almost guaranteed to have the sap peeing down the tree instead of into my buckets. I'm sick of seeing icefalls between my bucket and tree. :(
I haven't tried yet. Doesn't look like it will run for at least another week:cry: at the price of them I hate to drill them out and ruin it. But still will probably try a few. I wonder if Dr. Tim has done any study's or know of any on these spouts. Everywhere sugaring supplies are sold they have these spouts but I haven't found many people that are using them.

[BoxfordChas]

It is great to hear other folks independent insights on the 5/16" blue spiles/spouts. I am having several problems with the 5/16" some of which are identical to yours. I drill in a 1.5-2 inch deep hole at a 15-20% angle with a 5/16" drill and am firmly tapping in the spile with a small hammer.
(1) Three of seven of my spiles have pulled out. This happens when (a) buckets are empty and the wind is blowing hard back and forth or (b) I have a good run and there is weight in the bucket.
(2) Four of seven of my spiles are bleeding down the side of the tree from the bottom side of the spile.
What are your experiences and your solutions? I'd prefer not to go back to the larger spiles, because they take longer to heal and introduce infection.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

BoxfordChas, second year sugaring my "Micro Sugar Bush" -- five trees.

[Run Forest Run!]

BoxfordChas, I have found that the only way to combat the problem of the spiles pulling out due to wind or the weight of the sap (what a ridiculous reason for a spile to fall out) is to tie every one of my buckets to the trees with binder twine. That works, but is a pain. I had some blue spiles that consistantly seemed loose and drippy this year and I just recently replaced them with metal 7/16 spiles. I didn't drill a different hole, I just enlarged the one I already had for the 5/16. That has worked well. It's only the very beginning of the season for me and I didn't want the added drama from some spiles that were refusing to do their job.

[Big_Eddy]

We tapped 50 5/16 blue spiles and 50 7/16 cast aluminium spiles the same day in the same bush as an experiment. We added 50 rolled stainless spiles 2 weeks later.

After COLD nights - the blue spiles take longer to get started. The smaller hole forms a core of ice and without the metal to conduct the heat into the tree, they stay frozen sometimes missing a whole day of flow. Happened twice now, both after sustained cold spells.

On COLD evenings - the blue spiles continue to run longer than the metal spiles. The metal spiles will freeze up at the tip and then the icicle will prevent sap exiting the tap and eventually the tap is frozen solid. The blue spiles take longer to cool off.

So far 1 metal spile and 1 plastic spile have fallen out of the tree. Both were drilled essentially level (slightly down)
So far the hook has broken off 1 plastic spile and the spile needed to be replaced. We also had to replace a broken metal spile where the lid holder broke off and I lose a few more every year when they are tapped in.
The hook on the plastic spiles does not work well with some of my buckets. I have some buckets with a small grommet and they jam on the plastic spiles. The also don't work as well on the cast spiles and I've been replacing the grommets over time - but they are a bigger issue on the plastic spiles.
I have about the same leakage rate between cast and plastic spiles. Rolled stainless seem to be better. They all stop leaking over time, sometimes after a gentle tap to snug them up.

I have NOT noticed any difference in the amount of sap collected between the plastic and metal spiles EXCEPT for those days where the blue spile didn't thaw out. (2 days so far)

Jury is still out for me. Don't know yet if I'll be buying another 100 plastics for next season or not. I like the idea of the smaller hole in the tree as long as it doesn't impact overall production too severely.

I do have 150 cast spiles and 300 rolled stainless spiles, as well as the 50 plastics I bought to try.

[Paul VT]

Interesting to hear that someone has done some research. I would have thought they would have done this before they put them on the market but I have not heard of any. Anyone that is using the blue 5/16 plastic spouts keep us all posted. I still have not drilled out any but looks like still a few days before any thaw here.

[Clinkis]

I switched all my spiles to 5/16 this year after testing a few last year. Like others here have mentioned, I have notice no significant change is sap flow. I have also had a couple fall out during strong winds but this is worth it to me. I found the 5/16 holes from last year were, in many cases, already healed to point you could barely see them and the ease of drilling is amazing compared to 7/16. I put in all my taps with one battery in my cordless drill as opposed to 2 or 3 with 7/16. There is actually alot of research out there on the pro's and con's of the various spill sizes if you do a little searching on this site and the Internet. Most of it points to the fact that there are way more pro's then con's for switching to the 5/16 from the 7/16.

[Paul VT]

I switched all my spiles to 5/16 this year after testing a few last year. Like others here have mentioned, I have notice no significant change is sap flow. I have also had a couple fall out during strong winds but this is worth it to me. I found the 5/16 holes from last year were, in many cases, already healed to point you could barely see them and the ease of drilling is amazing compared to 7/16. I put in all my taps with one battery in my cordless drill as opposed to 2 or 3 with 7/16. There is actually alot of research out there on the pro's and con's of the various spill sizes if you do a little searching on this site and the Internet. Most of it points to the fact that there are way more pro's then con's for switching to the 5/16 from the 7/16.
Are you using the blue plastic spouts? These are the ones we are questioning.

[Clinkis]

Yes, all my pails are on the blue plastic spouts. The ones on pipeline are clear plastic

[Winters Harvest]

On our buckets I use CDL smartspouts. I have a good number of metal hooks from the metal spouts. I put a 5/16 washer on, then the hook before driving the spout. This setup seems to be working good for us and alot cheaper than the blue spouts. They seem to thaw out pretty good also. They have run on days that I never figured to see sap.

[argohauler]

On our buckets I use CDL smartspouts. I have a good number of metal hooks from the metal spouts. I put a 5/16 washer on, then the hook before driving the spout. This setup seems to be working good for us and alot cheaper than the blue spouts. They seem to thaw out pretty good also. They have run on days that I never figured to see sap.

I'd like to know with you using hooks, how big are your buckets and if any have pulled out when the buckets were full? Thanks.

[Winters Harvest]

I am using 4 gal buckets and I have not had any pull when full. I tried some of the new leader check ball spouts without the check balls and they won't work due to the right angle design. The smart spouts are working very well.

[drpud]

Boxford
Try drilling a slightly smaller hole ie 19/64 bit vs 5/16 bit when using the 5/16 spile. A brad point bit is nice if you have it. You will find a snugger fit for the spile and less issues with leakage. I also find it helpful to have the bit against the bark before starting/engaging the drill.
Paul

[Ironwoods Farm]

I tapped on Feb 10th with 5/16 blue bucket spouts, 87 total. I collected 1100 gallons of sap, last collection was 125 gallons
in an 18 hour period on April 7th. I have been using them for a few years and had 1 fall out and have broken 2.
I am very happy with them.

[jrgagne99]

I used the blue spouts but had constant trouble with the sap bleeding down the tree. I think they are sized too big for a standard 5/16" SS tapping bit, and don't seat correctly in the hole. Also had one or two pull out over the course of three or four seasons. I switched to CVA's with stubbys and the sap stains went away. Correspondingly, sap production on our buckets improved.

[Big_Eddy]

We tapped 50 5/16 blue spiles and 50 7/16 cast aluminium spiles the same day in the same bush as an experiment. We added 50 rolled stainless spiles 2 weeks later.

...........
Jury is still out for me. Don't know yet if I'll be buying another 100 plastics for next season or not. I like the idea of the smaller hole in the tree as long as it doesn't impact overall production too severely.



End of Season update.
There was no significant difference noticed between the metal spouts and the plastic spouts in the amount of sap gathered. Because we installed all 50 plastics first and then metal, they were clustered in different sections of the bush. Any differences noticed could just as easily have been caused by slight differences in location. We did replace some plastics with metal for a tree-beside-tree comparison with no noticeable performance difference. Next year we will alternate plastic / metal as we tap.

In early season - the blue plastic taps are susceptible to freeze up and take longer to thaw than larger metal spiles. They get a core of ice in them that doesn't melt.

Metal taps pushed out of the tree more often during cold weather and needed tapping back in more often. More metal taps fell out over the season (3 versus 1) More metal taps leaked than plastic - but once snugged up they stopped. A few of the plastic taps leaked most of the season.

The hook on the plastic taps does not work well with some of my buckets with smaller grommets. This was particularly noticeable on good days. Some buckets needed to be tilted so much that sap spilled out, before they could be lifted off the hook.

No more spiles broke over the season.

I'll be watching the rate at which the holes heal over. I think I'll be buying more plastic taps in the spring.

[Run Forest Run!]

Thanks so much for your update. Myself, I found that the blue plastic spiles that I put in early had a lot of problems with leakage and falling out. The ones that I put in at a more 'traditional' tapping time didn't leak nearly as much and never fell out. I'll rememeber that for next year when I'm tempted to jump the gun on a tapping date. I agree with you that they seemed to ice up quite regularly which meant that they didn't start to release the sap until later in the day. On the plus side, they are much easier to pull out at the end of the season.

[Paul VT]

I tapped on march 5th. Last boil was last night. I made somewhere around 34 gallons. (Canning the last of it right now). On 179 buckets. This year I finally feel that the blue spouts did pretty well. I will continue to use them next year. But I agree that with some of my buckets the hole is a little small and makes it hard to get off the hook. Especially when the bucket is full.

[argohauler]

A couple ways to empty a bucket that is hard to get off the hook. If it's not too big of a bucket you can tip it by grabbing the bottom of the bucket or what I do with with big pails that are full or pretty full is place my thumb on the end of the hook and push as I lift the bucket off.