Finishing syrup and avoiding propane hot spots on 12x20 canner - couple ideas

[Snowy Pass Maple]

I have a 12x20 WF Mason finisher/canner, similar to Leader and others. I was thinking about heating, filtering w/no heat to avoid niter formation, and then transferring to a stock pot water bath to avoid hotspots from the propane, leading to niter problems.

My understanding is that it's the propane flames that really causes this. I'm wondering if anyone has tried a diffuser plate between the flame and bottom of the pot with a small air space, to avoid the direct flame heat - and if this would be enough to avoid niter.

My thought here being that all I need to do is hold at ~185 - not heat it up - so shouldn't require a ton of heat, or super efficient heat transfer to the pan.

Anyone try something like this successfully?

Backup plan, which I've done before, is to suspend a stock pot inside a giant stock pot water bath, and then siphon out the top of the pot with a stainless tube bent in a U, and filling valve/fitting below the level of the pot. This avoids the complication of fabricating something to pass through the water jacket which is way beyond my skill level.

The Mason canner is also well suited to fit two stock pots at once inside it, suspended by their handles. The siphon method would then work fine here as well. It's just a little more hassle to filter the syrup, move it out, and convert it to a water bath.

[spencer11]

I think your first idea is basically what a steam pan under your canner would do. it boils water and steams on the bottom of the finisher pan to keep from making hot spots

[Snowy Pass Maple]

I think your first idea is basically what a steam pan under your canner would do. it boils water and steams on the bottom of the finisher pan to keep from making hot spots

This is something I was also thinking about, except I'm wasn't sure I have the right sized pan to fit the frame - but thinking further about this, I believe the 12x20 frame is the exact size of a full size hotel pan. I will have to try that... I was just wondering if anyone had tried a simple metal baffle to diffuse the heat slightly.

[jrgagne99]

Interesting idea, although I've never noticed niter forming in my propane canning unit to begin with. Then again, I don't bottle in glass very often.

[bowtie]

i have the same mason finisher/canner, i have not had a problem with niter. i filter at draw-off and again before i start finishing when it is hot. i think this takes care of most of the niter and suspended solids. if i do not start finishing right away i will let the partially finished syrup settle in a draw-off pail, then when finish i am very care to not pour the settled portion of the syrup through my filter into my finisher. you may have more niter in sap than i have but if you filter more i think it will help, and if you clean your finisher after every batch will it is still warm the build up will come off easier. i use warm water, vinegar and a "magic" eraser. this only takes a few minutes and you can start your next batch.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

Just to clarify, the syrup I'm getting so far is really clear - even after some time boiling on the finisher. So I'm pleasantly surprised - but paranoid of discovering a problem after doing a bunch of bottles. My main worry is creating new niter while keeping it hot to bottle. I've read way too many horror stories on here where people say you just can't have a flame on a pan used to bottle out of - but maybe those are few and far between? I can also see where it's possible to dial the flame back a bit on the burner and maybe that's all I need to do.

I've been running it through the flat filter at ~55-65 brix off the evaporator, then finishing to final density, and hotpacking into storage container.

I expected to have to refilter prior to bottling since we are filtering prior to finishing, so I was figuring I would reheat a couple gallons to ~185-190 in covered stock pot, then send that through the flat filter to pick up any niter that came from the finishing process (with some DE - mountainvan's approach seems to do great). It sounds like if I am careful to keep the heat low on the finisher to just hold it at ~185, we should do fine. I may also wrap the finisher with something to insulate and further lower the amount of heat I need to put in.

Aiming to pack a gallon or two tomorrow into 200-250 mL glass and will post back on how it goes - and happy to take any other last minute advice before then!

[stoweski]

I too have the same finisher/canner. I filter syrup into it and then turn it on. Once it gets to 160 I turn the flame down lower and wait (quite a while) for the syrup temp to reach 180. Once there I get ready to bottle and let it rise another 10 degrees to 190 then turn the burner off completely.
I've bottled in glass without any niter problems doing it this way for a couple of years. Syrup is clear and people aren't complaining so until I see a buildup in the glass jars or hear about complaints I'll keep doing it this way.

[Zamkev]

Has anyone tried putting a warming pan in a larger finishing pan to bring the syrup up to bottling temp? I wonder about condensation...

Here's what I was thinking....

7378

Is it worth the hassle of having to deal with a warming pan full of syrup after it reaches 190? My plan is to pour it into a pre-warmed filter tank with a bottling valve. I'll probably lose a few degrees after I transfer, but I'll likely be bottling 5 gallons at a time(if the warming pan holds that much) so it should hold it's temp pretty good I think.

Any thoughts?

thx

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I have the same sized caner. I had an idea to help reduce heat while getting the best heat transfer. I have yet to do this as it hasn't made it to the top of the list yet, but think it will work.

The idea is to take copper baseboard hot water pipe. Bend it to fit the contour of the bottom perimeter of the caner. It will act as a heat shield of sorts to trap in the heat and force it to be applied to the bottom of the caner instead of escaping out the sides. This way you could apply less propane and get same heating results giving less hot spots and a more even heat distribution.

The idea comes from the Jetboil personal cooking system that can boil 16 oz of water in 2 minutes. I tried to find pictures of it but could not. They use aluminum wafers around perimeter of pot to trap heat and it works amazing. The same concept I think can work to the caner.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

Has anyone tried putting a warming pan in a larger finishing pan to bring the syrup up to bottling temp? I wonder about condensation...

Here's what I was thinking....

7378

Is it worth the hassle of having to deal with a warming pan full of syrup after it reaches 190? My plan is to pour it into a pre-warmed filter tank with a bottling valve. I'll probably lose a few degrees after I transfer, but I'll likely be bottling 5 gallons at a time(if the warming pan holds that much) so it should hold it's temp pretty good I think.

Any thoughts?

thx

This is basically what I did last year to warm syrup to bottle, without going over 190 - but I also kept a snug fitting lid on the pot so I wouldn't change brix due to evaporation while it warmed. I was just nesting stock pots. This seems like a nice idea for a way to heat it if you really didn't want to use the flame - a hotel pan probably fits perfectly in a 12x20 canner - any you should be able to get a cover for it too.

I can also report back that on the Mason canner, it really was quite easy to keep the heating under control with a low flame - and the flame doesn't come close to hitting the pan, so I doubt there would be a problem with hot spots leading to niter run this way. As someone else mentioned, I was real slow and steady bringing it up to 180. I had preheated the syrup in stock pots separately and sent through filter - but it cooled back to ~140 by the time it was ready to bottle, so I did have to heat it a bit on the canner. Will take some time to evaluate the bottling results, but things look nicer than anything I've gotten before thus far.

Second pass through the filter was also super fast - I had filtered at ~60 brix previously, and with DE, it really went through quick on the second pass. To the point that I'd think about cycling it 2-3 times much like one might on a filter press.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

I have the same sized caner. I had an idea to help reduce heat while getting the best heat transfer. I have yet to do this as it hasn't made it to the top of the list yet, but think it will work.

The idea is to take copper baseboard hot water pipe. Bend it to fit the contour of the bottom perimeter of the caner. It will act as a heat shield of sorts to trap in the heat and force it to be applied to the bottom of the caner instead of escaping out the sides. This way you could apply less propane and get same heating results giving less hot spots and a more even heat distribution.

The idea comes from the Jetboil personal cooking system that can boil 16 oz of water in 2 minutes. I tried to find pictures of it but could not. They use aluminum wafers around perimeter of pot to trap heat and it works amazing. The same concept I think can work to the caner.

I know the setup you're talking about - in my case though, I found at the very lowest flame setting, there was still enough heat coming out that I had to turn it off periodically to avoid overheating while bottling a small 2 gallon batch. This does still lead me to think a heat baffle that actually directs heat around the pan a bit could help as it would probably mean you'd lose a little efficiency, which may then get you to a setting where you could dial in and stay around 185.

[stoweski]

I was also considering converting to a two burner system. This way the heat can be directed over the majority of the tank instead of in the middle. Anyone convert theirs over? The way I look at it is I could reduce the flame but heat the syrup faster.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

Promised I'd report back -

First, the DE is a huge help on filtering - way faster. I have been covering the main felt filter with a prefilter, then mixing about 1 cup DE in 1-2 gallons to "charge" it - then pour that in and let it settle. If you pour another batch, it disturbs the DE cake that has formed, but overall it's not a big problem - I just notice that those areas without the DE cake tend to have a thin layer of syrup that doesn't go through as easily. I thought about protecting the existing DE cake with another prefilter, but then that prefilter would just plug. I don't need to add DE to each subsequent gallon added - I would say I mix in maybe 1/4 cup in every other 1-2 gallon draw that is added.

The low flame on this canner does not seem to have any problem with deposit formation as long as you keep the temperature from going too high. You can just barely crack it and there is some distance to the pan without it hitting directly. No evidence of any deposits on the pan when done. The only issue is that I can't dial it low enough to have it hold at 185-190 - it tends to keep going up in temperature, so I have to cycle on/off. For this reason, some sort of heat diffusing baffle could make sense. It was also pretty easy to warm the tank at this very low flame setting if you have an hour or so - I did this with one batch as well, never having the flame high enough so that the blue was touching the pan.

One thing I was lucky on was at the very end, I tipped up the canner using the flip-up stand and smelled the last bit of residual syrup turning to caramel as it all drained to one end while I had the heat on low! No damage done to pan, and just saved that for my own use.

Having bottled a couple gallons in glass, I'm really happy with the results compared to what I have had in the past using a cone filter - this was one pass through cone filter off the evaporator, finish to final brix, then pass through DE/flat felt. Time will tell whether anything manages to settle, but folks at our open house this weekend seemed to like it. It's so fast going through the filter on the finishing unit that I may even try the next batch making 2-3 passes through the filter to see if I can detect any difference in clarity. Having never used a filter press, I can't compare to that yet...

[GratiotCoMiMaple]

Does the Mason Canner have a single turkey cooker style burner or an "H" shaped grill type of burner like the Leader units have?

Kurt

[Snowy Pass Maple]

Does the Mason Canner have a single turkey cooker style burner or an "H" shaped grill type of burner like the Leader units have?

Kurt

It's a single round burner on the smaller 12x20 model that I have.

[GeneralStark]

In my experience, the only time I have had niter issues in the canner is once when I accidentally let the syrup over heat to about 195. I then had to re-filter it. I am using a commercial propane burner which gets very hot on the high level so I typically keep it in the med/low range.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I was wondering if there was any style caner that agitated the syrup gently while heating for even heat distribution? I have SS 2500 Gal round tank that used to be used for dairy and has a prop inside designed to gently stir the milk. I thought why not use this design for syrup while heating so the heat is evenly distributed while the flame is on. I heat up 5-10 gal batches and I am sure the bottom half in the caner is much hotter than the top half. Just wondering if anyone has done this before, or if there is a caner out there that works this way?

[Snowy Pass Maple]

So I spoke too soon above... after a week, there is still a very faint bit of haze settling to the bottom. Better than anything I've bottled before, but not quite perfect. I'm thinking taking it through the felt/DE filter stack another pass may be worth trying?

[GratiotCoMiMaple]

I just looked at both the 12x20 and 16x24 Leader canner/filter units and they both have the "H" shaped burner to help even out the heat. You may be able fit this type of gas grill burning under your canner and solve your issue. At this time I only really needed the 12x20 unit but for only $70 more I opted for the larger unit. I will probably grow into it anyway. Boiling on a 2x6 I can have enough syrup in a days boil to nearly fill the 12x20 unit. I filter directly off the evaporator and will plug up 5-6 pre-filters in a days boil (5-6 gallons). When I finish off the syrup all that crap isn't getting boiled with the syrup and may keep the syrup a little lighter in color. When I have finished the syrup I filter again into the canner and will only need 1 pre-filter. I bottle some in glass and it seems to be clear. But then a comparison in the same bottle from a filter press may show a difference.

BTW.......went to your facebook site. What a beautiful sugar shack !!! Is the recipe for the tea smoked chicken available?

Happy boiling,
Kurt