Sugars vs Reds

[Flatfoot95]

I am currently thinning a soon to be sugar bush. These woods have never been cut off. Most of the older trees are reds however there is an ample amount of young sugars coming up underneath. Most are 20-30' tall and are about 3 inches in diameter. My question is should I be cutting down a 6-10" red to allow the younger sugar to flourish. I am not short on taps for the years to come. This is just a project so I can eventually have a bush instead of mostly roadsides. Any suggestions or oppinions will be greatly appreciated.

[HanginAround]

I'm not an expert... but there is no way I would cut a 6-10" Red to give a 3" Sugar a boost. I think Reds make fine syrup even if the yields are slightly lower. My friend has 100 taps almost all Reds, and he makes very nice light syrup. I would be afraid you or I wouldn't live long enough to see a 3" Sugar reach tappable size even after you cut down a 40 yo Red. The decision has to be yours, based on how much thinning is really neccessary and if you could get away with thinning something other than healthy trees coming into their prime.

It will be interesting to see what ppl who DO know what they're talking about post 8O :D

Anyone have guesses how old a 10" tree is, or how long for a 3" tree to reach 10"?

[Parker]

I am by no means an expert and this is just my opinion,,If you are happy with the number of taps you have now and want all sugars to tap in the futcher then I would cut the reds,,on decent soil it is possible for a tree to grow 4" dia. in 10 years,,(I think in good conditions they will grow faster but that is what the county forester told me) ,dosent sound like much does it?,,BUT sugars last a lot longer than reds, sugars are sweeter than reds, rockies run longer than reds,,and it is the right thing to do,,(Ha Ha),,THe ideal sugar tree has a crown that starts near the ground, the bigger the crown the more sap,,,if properly thinned you can encourage big crowns,,,,if you do thin it out just remember,,dont open it up too fast and dont damage the rockies while felling and skidding the culls,rockies are easily damaged by soil compaction, good luck!!

[royalmaple]

I'd say your looking at probably 40+ years for the 3" tree to be tapping size, so add up all the sap that red will give you in 40 years (0 from the sugar for 40 years) and I think you'll be ahead of the game by the time you pass on.

But wouldn't hurt to leave some small sugars in an area that you are only cutting brother and sister sugars the same size to let some dominant ones grow.

[Flatfoot95]

I transplanted some sugars in my yard about 12 years back. They have easily grown 3-4" in diameter since I have planted them. The soil where I am thinning is very moist and rich. Parker why do you say not to open too fast? I am not saying that I will cut all the reds however anything that is crooked, leaning or otherwise suspect may become fire wood.

[Rob Harvey]

Because if you release all four sides of the tree at once the trees get sun scald. It is better to cut the trees around them over the course of several years. You sort of have to let them get used to all that sun slowly.

[Flatfoot95]

Right now I am leaving a tree atleast 20-30 foot tall about every 8-10 feet. Is that about right or too fast.

[Rob Harvey]

Look up, it is the crown you want to release. Look at what trees are crowding each crown and remove some of them. You dont want to open up the crown all the way around in one year.

[Parker]

As I was in the sugarwoods doing some thinning yesterday (and getting eaten alive by black flys) I was thinking about your question and I suppose I want to add to my earlier comment,,,,,,,making a bush is a long term project that will take years and years,,to thin the woods properly and not expose the baby rockies to too much light you will probably need to leave some of the reds for now,,no reason you could not tap them for a while,,then when the bush was ready to be thinned agine (cause the crowns were starting to grow together and the rockies needed more room) you could take down your lines and cut more of the reds,,,thinning is a long term process,,,but when the rockies are pole wood size is when thinning does the most good,,,I am looking at the thinning guidlines for 3-8 inch DIA. trees in the Maple Syrup Producers Manual,,,they recomend first selecting a crop tree then removing any trees whos crown is within 6 -9 feet of your crop tree,,,Good luck,,,most of use dont enjoy thinning but the for the rare few that do,,there is nothing better than being able to see the friuts of your labor

[batsofbedlam]

When I was on the IMSI-NAMPA meeting in Three Rivers, Quebec last Oct., we visited a sugar bush of 35,000 taps, all on Red Maple. I thought that sugar sand would be a problem, but the owner said it wasn't. But I would think you would want to run the sap through a R.O. since the sugar content is usually about 1%.