New wisconsin mandatory reporting

[jmayerl]

Just a heads up to all Wisconsinites that sell ANY syrup. The state has new requirements. The old rule of if you just sold from home or farm stands is out. You now must register no matter what. You must have a clean, separate processing room other than your home kitchen, 3 compartment sink. There is no inspection or fee if sales are under $5000, but you may not purchase any sap either.
http://datcp.wi.gov/Food/Honey_and_Maple_Syrup/Selling_Maple_Syrup/index.aspx

[GramaCindy]

One has just got to wonder where this is coming from….a three hole sink? What about potable water, drainage, sanitation? The list could go on. I just don't get it.You just have to wonder how they could make these regulations without more specifics. Like Potable Water….drainage….hot water…..The three hole sink thing is riduculous! What do they want in the three holes, no mention of that. I work in a school kitchen, am Level 3 certified (the top) for the SNA, have ServSafe certification, and am HACCP trained. What gives? I make my syrup in my sugar house, finish outside on a stainless turkey fryer, then head into my home kitchen that has been cleaned from stem to stern, sanitized anywhere I will be working and bottle off of a stainless coffee urn, wash and boil my bottles and all equipment involved in bottling. Now they say that I can't use my home kitchen for bottling? Forgetaboutit!

[Sweet80]

It seems to me that somebody does not want the small scale producer the ability to legally sell their syrup.

[GramaCindy]

and how sad is that Sweet?

[325abn]

Watch out for the maple gustapo!

[Sweet80]

Pretty sad GC, pretty sad.
I wonder how these rules were developed?

[Red-bellied Woodpecker]

I think some of this is coming from the big guys in the state that don't want the smaller guys being able to sell any here. Well soon it will be like moonshine for the small guys when it come to selling. At this rate wont be selling any of my syrup in the state.

[flying squirrel maple]

Did you people read where it says no inspection if sales are under $5,000. As far as three sinks one for washing one for disinfecting and one for rinsing not a big deal and even easier an NSF rated dish washer I've got one bought it at sears. This law is all about food safety. Not a big deal !

[GramaCindy]

Flying squirrel, this is what I am referring to...You don’t need a license if:

You extract, package and sell only your own maple syrup from your own trees, and
You don’t process the maple syrup or produce any food products other than maple syrup or concentrated sap, and
Your gross receipts from maple syrup and concentrated sap do not exceed $5,000 during the year.
Even if you don’t need a license, you do need to follow the other regulations discussed here.


and then….What kind of facilities and equipment do I need?
Whether or not you need a license, if you’re going to sell your maple syrup, you need a separate room dedicated to your food business with commercial-grade equipment. This means you can’t extract, process, or bottle your honey in the same kitchen where you cook your family meals, or in any room that’s part of your normal living space. Because maple syrup is not a potentially hazardous food, we’re not looking for operating-room sterility, but you do need to have equipment in good repair and maintain good sanitation in the place where you handle maple syrup. Some specifics:

The room must have washable floors, walls, and ceilings.
You must have adequate light so you can see well enough to keep things sanitary.
The room must be properly ventilated to prevent steam and condensation and to keep exhaust air from blowing onto the maple syrup.
All the doors and windows must to be well-screened so birds, insects and rodents can’t enter.
You must have a three-compartment sink or NSF-approved dishwasher for washing your equipment and utensils. (NSF is a non-profit, non-government organization that develops standards and certifies products for public health).
Equipment such as extractors, stoves, sinks, tables, shelving and storage containers must be easily cleanable and in good repair.
Utensils like pans, bowls, knives and spoons must be smooth, impervious, and easily cleaned. Just about all utensils manufactured these days meet this requirement.
You must keep your facilities and equipment clean and in good repair.
Maple syrup that you sell has to be in new containers.

[flying squirrel maple]

Yep read it , no different than a farmer having a separate sterile room for the bulk tank. I'm just sick of hearing its all the big guy BS they started the same way we did small. Love this site but sick of the bickering.

[southfork]

I do not see it as a big issue and may keep consumer confidence in maple products. The food chain these days is getting alot of attention, but then again , society sues every time someone gets a food related illness. Then there is biosecurity. Best to comply and move forward IMO, I do not worry about it.

[GramaCindy]

Flying squirrel and southfork, I meant not to advocate bickering or bashing the big guys…hey we're all here to make a good product Right? Just wondering how far the little guy needs to follow these new regs. Do we all need to have a 3 hole sink just to sell to the local guys or can we continue to bottle in our own clean home kitchens?

[southfork]

This was not caused by the " big guys ", if you mean larger syrup producers. They are simply in a better position to conform. As far as a three hole sink, seems unnecessary to me, but I didn't write the regulations. That one item, though excessive, does not make the concept baseless.

I am sure the regulations will evolve, but my guess is they will slowly become more restrictive, not less. Time will tell but I think our path is larger government , not smaller. You can thank the voters for that, not the large syrup producers.

[Sweet80]

I agree that most of the requirements are common sense and straight forward, but a separate room with a NSF sink or dishwasher are not. These requirements previously only applied if you sold your syrup on the grocery store shelf, but the small producer who only sold by word of mouth was not subject to them.

I highly doubt that these new requirements came about through elected officials. In fact it was the big government Doyle administration that passed the pickle law. The pickle law was intended to let small time food producers sell their product without so much expensive regulation.

[WI Sugarpop]

I'm confused about you, sweet80 and jmeyerl, talking about these so called "new" state requirements. I got the state Ag Dept. phone number from the link that jmeyerl posted. It is on the form that we are supposed to fill out. I called and talked to a man in Madison and he said these so called requirements have been on the books for awhile. We just didn't know it. I think it is just a screening to find out who needs to be licensed. I suggest you call the number and talk to the guy.
Wisconsin Dept. of Agriculture 608-224-4736

[markcasper]

It seems the way I understand is that NO...you do not need to be inspected if you produce less than $5,000 and DO NOT sell any to a wholesaler. If you sell to a wholesaler or bulk buyer, and its less than $5,000, then you need to register with the sate, but you do not need a formal license or formal inspection. If you sell more than 5,000 to a packer, then you need the full inspection.

I believe I am right on the following as well....even if you produce and sell less than $5,000 to a packer, it has to be from your own woods, not from a different landowner, and not from purchased sap. So if it is from purchased sap, then their is no $$$ limit. So if your neighbor is hauling his sap from across the fence to your shack, you'll be answering to the state on that one.

[WI Sugarpop]

Mark, I understand the state requirements. What I am saying is that they are not new this year.

[jmayerl]

Mark, I understand the state requirements. What I am saying is that they are not new this year.

Acually you are somewhat correct. The requirements as far as triple sink and seperate bottling area are old rules.

The old rule was if you sold at your residence or farmers market that you did not need to be inspected. Now that rule has the $5000 limit.

[jmayerl]

Mark, if you do a simple lease agreement with your neighbor then you are not purchasing the sap.

[Pete S]

How nice. Now we're all a bunch of criminals!

[jmayerl]

How nice. Now we're all a bunch of criminals!

Yup none of us win in the end!

[logboy]

They can have my syrup when they pry it from my cold dead hands!

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Pete S]

Excellent "logboy"!

[markcasper]

Mark, if you do a simple lease agreement with your neighbor then you are not purchasing the sap.

A lease agreement will be a hard sell if your neighbor is collecting it and bringing it to you. If your doing a lease agreement and he is doing the work to deliver it then its assumed that he is getting a wage of some sort and now that opens things up being subject to social security and the IRS. Just saying.

[jputney]

I'm in the same boat... I get my sap from a friends land and in trade I give them 1/4 of the syrup I make. I tap 250 trees so it's not like I am anywhere close to that $5000 but as I read the law there is no way around me getting a license. I will do that eventually but a guy can only put so much money into a small operation each year.

[rslaback]

So much for knowledge is power. I want my ignorance back.

It looks like I need to make some major changes.

I have been using the same 36" x 44" steel pan that my father started with in the 70's. I get my sap from some church friends' land (for free). I boil down in a simple evaporator set up made from an oil drum in an open air setting (no shack). I finish with a turkey fryer on my deck. I bottle in my kitchen. I make about 7-12 gallons a year (any less doesn't make the effort worth it in my opinion).

Seems I am screwed in many ways. 7 gallons is way more than my family will use in a year and/or give away. There is no way I can even consider putting up a shack and a processing room as my family will move around a lot due to my wife's work.

It seems my only real option is to just make syrup for my own families consumption and just do it every 3 years or so. Even if I wanted to I would drop way more money on getting up to code than I could ever get back in sales. I'm not interested in big picture paying for people to take my syrup.

Ugh.

[pls009]

Looking at making syrup - Does anyone that is inspected been approved that doesn't actually have a well or running water? My shack has electricity and will make a separate bottling room with the sink but was hoping to use RO water and also have a separate water tank available for cleaning. I haven't visited many shacks but it seems like I can remember a couple that just used the hot water off the preheater and RO water for their water supply. Forgive me in advance because I haven't actually called the State yet - just trying to figure this stuff out.

[Maple Man 85]

I've heard of using the preheater water and RO water as well I would think that if you had an on demand electric hot water heater to get the temp up for sanitation there wouldn't be an issue. Thinking about hitting up autrader and buying a general lee to run my syrup :lol:

[Cody]

Yup none of us win in the end!We will all win in the end,YOU KNOW THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO PROTECT US FROM OURSELVES:evil:Plus it's a new stream of revenue coming into there pockets.We will have to get a maple syrup lobby going.They just want a few dollars more from each one of us so they can better serve us,don't that make you all feel better:evil:

[SugarHill]

The following information is what I was provided with when I applied for and was inspected by the state.
You do not need to have a well at your sugarhouse, but the water from the well you do use must be tested annually.

FOOD PROCESSING PLANT INSPECTION POLICY Effective Date: October 16, 2013 Page: 4-22
SAP PROCESSING
NOTE: Occasionally operators install collection pans or tubes inside the evaporator
hood to reclaim hot condensation water for cleaning and hand washing purposes.
Some operators also reclaim water from Reverse Osmosis systems. Regardless of
which reclaim water system they use, the reclaim system should be checked for
sanitary design, reasonable construction materials, and protection from contamination.
Only potable water may be used on finishing room equipment product contact surfaces
for final rinse and sanitizing. Reclaim water may not be bottled for sale as drinking
water.

[pls009]

The following information is what I was provided with when I applied for and was inspected by the state.
You do not need to have a well at your sugarhouse, but the water from the well you do use must be tested annually.

FOOD PROCESSING PLANT INSPECTION POLICY Effective Date: October 16, 2013 Page: 4-22
SAP PROCESSING
NOTE: Occasionally operators install collection pans or tubes inside the evaporator
hood to reclaim hot condensation water for cleaning and hand washing purposes.
Some operators also reclaim water from Reverse Osmosis systems. Regardless of
which reclaim water system they use, the reclaim system should be checked for
sanitary design, reasonable construction materials, and protection from contamination.
Only potable water may be used on finishing room equipment product contact surfaces
for final rinse and sanitizing. Reclaim water may not be bottled for sale as drinking
water.


Thanks! - This makes sense!

[Pete S]

http://datcp.wi.gov/Food/Honey_and_Maple_Syrup/Selling_Maple_Syrup/