Waterloo RO working properly?????????????????????

[PerryFamily]

Ran my new to me Waterloo 600 RO with a NF270 membrane for the second time last night. AMAZING how fast pure water is removed! Anyway, seems to work good, except I cant get to 8% sugar on one pass from 1.5% sap.??

Is it even possible? It should be at 2%?

My flow meters were at about 13 GPM, that 870 GPH??? 6 GPM con, 7 gpm perm, pressure at 500psi and recirculation needle valve all the way in .

I recirculated once than made 9% right to the head tank.

I check sugar with a sap hydrometer, I plan on getting a refractometer soon.

Does this seem right, or normal?

Thanks in advance

[mapleack]

You're not going to go from 1.5 to 8% in one pass with with nf270's, the flow rate is too high. Someone that has used them can chime in on pressures, but I believe you're risking sugar passage by running over 400psi, I would boil a gallon of permeate down to pint and check with your sap hydrometer. With nice high flow like that just plan your day so you can recirc through twice at lower pressure and still get to 8 or 9%. You'll never want to boil without an RO again will you? :)

[PerryFamily]

Andy- so far so good. You are exactly right. I am making a gallon and a half every 20 minutes instead of every hour plus!!
I have read about keeping the pressures low. Would that mean going over say 8-9% is probably not a good idea or even possible?
I love it, bring on the sap!!

[mapleack]

Andy- so far so good. You are exactly right. I am making a gallon and a half every 20 minutes instead of every hour plus!!
I have read about keeping the pressures low. Would that mean going over say 8-9% is probably not a good idea or even possible?
I love it, bring on the sap!!
You should be able to go higher, maybe 12%. I don't have any personal experience with those membranes, but i've read every ro thread on here and others have discussed passing sugar with 270's at high pressure and over 12%. The lower the pressure the less chance of sugar passage.

[Mark]

Ran my new to me Waterloo 600 RO with a NF270 membrane for the second time last night. AMAZING how fast pure water is removed! Anyway, seems to work good, except I cant get to 8% sugar on one pass from 1.5% sap.??

Is it even possible? It should be at 2%?

My flow meters were at about 13 GPM, that 870 GPH??? 6 GPM con, 7 gpm perm, pressure at 500psi and recirculation needle valve all the way in .

I recirculated once than made 9% right to the head tank.

I check sugar with a sap hydrometer, I plan on getting a refractometer soon.

Does this seem right, or normal?

Thanks in advance
I assume you have a needle valve for concentrate and recirculation. Open the recirculation a little and close the concentrate a little to adjust the ratio on the flow meters.

[PerryFamily]

Just finished up. So far so good. I think I should have switched sides half way through. Seems to be a lot of build up on the side I was drawing off. Will need to clean it tomorrow.

Is this buildup typical when boiling with concentrated sap? Seems as though it makes sense?

Seems as though to get say 12% I would just need to reirculate to the desired level just keeping the pressure low?

Still slightly confused with this machine. There is a screw type valve that controlls the concentration, and on the front a valve to control the pressure. What does pressure have to do with concentration. If the recirc valve is screwed all the way in I assume this is maximum concentration? Why would I need to increase the pressure?

Maybe I am looking into it too much.

HELL IT WORKS!! AND SAVED ME A TON OF TIME!!!!

Next thing to go is the flat filters. WAAAAAY too slow and too much work..Going to pickup a 7"short bank this week.

[Mark]

If you have a flow gauge for permeate and one for concentrate the ratio between the two is the percentage of water you are removing. Recirc closed is not max concentration.

[Maplewalnut]

My experience with NF270 membranes is anything over 250psi pressure and concentrating much over 10 % will start to pass sugar. Little at first but it escalates from there. I have been successful with low pressure and up to 15% but high pressure+high brix doesn't work
Good luck
Mike

[PerryFamily]

Walnut- Your Info seems to be the general consensus. Low pressure ( 250-300 ), and recirculate.

Last night was my first boil with RO sap. It was 8%. I hope to try 10-12% next time.

I was mostly disappointed with my evaporator this time. Last year I ran all pine and it ripped. This yr I have mostly hemlock and the boil is suffering. I had alot of coal buildup and was hurting my draft considerably. I have a forced draft unit that I am going to build the duct work for and install tomorrow before next boil. I think it will help the hemlock and coal situation.

Amazing how finicky this 2x6 is when it comes to wood. Hate to say it but oil is looking better and better. ( probably not )