Copper pipe laying inside on ramp-Hot Water idea ??

[TerryEspo]

There was a thread about free hot water.

I hope I can explain this idea and wonder if it would work.

On the left side of the arch, have a 1/2 or 3/4 copper pipe enter at a high area part of the ramp, it would enter from the outside, from your feeder tank. Once inside it would go down the ramp, up the ramp, down the ramp, up the ramp, etc., working it,s way over to the right side of the arch, then punch through outside the right side of the arch and have a tap or spout there.

The pipe would basically be resting on your blanket or bricks, full of water at all times. I just think you would have to have it flowing constantly, a slow drip at all times into a bucket or something.

I know nothing about copper and solder if it would take that heat so feel free to tell me, NOT a good idea, lol.

I was just something I was looking at as I built my arch, never did it, but could anytime.

Would it work?

Terry

[Pibster]

The copper pipe and solder would be fine as long as it was full of liquid.

[wiam]

And you would want to drain to prevent freezing

[325abn]

I think you will make steam

[TerryEspo]

I am glad to know it could work, steam or hot water, lol.

I am not going to do it his year or probably not at all, just wanted to know if the copper would stand up to that heat. I really want a flue pan, so when I do get one, I will make my new arch, that arch will probably just have a simple water jacket on the side. Its just nice to have hot water when you want it.

Thanks for all input.

Terry

[Maplesapper]

Melting point of cooper is 1900 F.
You should be fine.

[325abn]

What will you storee the hot water in? Might it be better just to put a small electric water heater in the shack?

When I build my house I put a hot water spicket outside so I can easly run a hose down to the shack.

[Big_Eddy]

The pipe would basically be resting on your blanket or bricks, full of water at all times. I just think you would have to have it flowing constantly, a slow drip at all times into a bucket or something.


Would it work?

Terry

Inside the arch, it's an explosion waiting to happen. The water will boil, turn to steam and cause a vapour lock, the pressure will build until the copper ruptures and the arch may or may not survive. Don't try it. Superheated steam is not something you want to mess with.

Your up and down pattern just makes it even more likely to vapour lock.

If you want hot water - typical solution is a hood with a gutter, next best solution would be a piggyback tank with a convection coil running along the OUTSIDE of the arch, or beside your chimney.

[TerryEspo]

Hey Big Eddy:

Yikes.

No copper going into any arch I own.

Thanks for the heads up.

Terry

[Ren]

This is exactly how I pre heat my sap. I have 10' or so of copper coiled inside the rear of my arch. It works great but it is very important that you have some sort of relief device in the tubing, so that if you get to a vapor lock situation it has some where to escape. Mine consists of a T with a 14" piece of copper pointing straight up. It is located just after the sap leaves the head tank. I have a valve on the hot sap side of the evaporator just before the float box, so I can regulate the flow of sap coming out till the pans get boiling and the float valve starts working. Once everything is up and running there is a constant flow of sap from the float valve and I shut down the other valve. Only had a problem once when I forgot to open the bypass valve before the float valve started to operate.

[sweeteffinsyrup]

Say now Ren that sounds like a neat idea. Every water heater out there has a T & P relief valve on it for these very reasons. There are also ordinary pressure relief valves, often found in any well water supply system in case ye ole pump wants to keep a runnin'. Either kind is not that insanely priced

[sg5054]

This may give you a little insight as to the results of super heated steam.....

http://www.wimp.com/heatermyth/

Enjoy.

[325abn]

Ren I am confused. Is your preheater in the arch or is it coiled aroind the smoke stack?

[Ren]

It is inside the very back of the arch, right behind the flue pan where the stack base is located.

[325abn]

Got any pics?

[RileySugarbush]

This type of preheater can certainly work, but please be careful. There is way more heat than needed to preheat sap and it is at a much higher temp than needed. High pressure explosions are unlikely but there is a real possibility of boiling hot sap or steam squirting out and burning someone. The best setup is a hood and preheater over the flue pan.

Keep in mind that the best possible improvement in performance with preheater is about 10%. It's not worth someone getting burned. Personally I would not let anyone anywhere near a setup that had sap running through copper tubing in the flue.

Be safe!

[maple flats]

If you decide to do this, have 2 or even 3 T&P (temperature & pressure) safety valves, and build a drain system.

[sweeteffinsyrup]

Good idea maple flats, the expansion rate from a drop of water (or sap in the case) to steam is insane. Maybe expansion rate isn't the proper label, but rather the enormous expansion in volume from liquid to steam in a short period of time.

[Ren]

Steam has a expansion rate of 1700 to 1. I have been running my preheater like this for 3 years and have only had on time when it started to boil and that was one of the first times I tried it. I should probably clarify a few things. The copper coil is in the flue but it is also protected by a 1/2" piece of ceramic fire blanket. So there is not really any direct flame impingement on the copper. If I didn't think it was safe I would not be doing it that way. I have seen many burns including steam and it is not pretty!

[Ryan August]

Ok, so i have been following this one and many other leads lurking, learning and laughing and have been thinking about this one all week. I have had two thoughts for about a year now on creating a new preheater. I think REN covered one, why not run the coil thru the flue? Capture the heat leaving the evaportor. I see some people wraping it around the outside, put it inside and capture more heat, no? ALso, in some furnaces for your home, their is a copper coil that sits in your fire box. If you got hot water heat, this heats up and circulates, some systems this is your hot water. Yes you have a pressure releif valve, 20 bucks from the depot, just one, why is your fire box in your furnace any different than your evaparator? the evaporater gets longer heat exposure? I have been thinking about taking the coil from my furnace that I replaced and setting in my evaporator, hooking an old circulator to it and using it as a preheater, just like on demand hot water for my house? thoughts