Fact or fiction?

[Galena]

Hey all,

There sure are a lot of weird ideas about sugaring out there, essentially urban (and to be fair, rural) myths.

After all most of us have heard about the $18 million in syrup being stolen, but is it true that 70% of all syrup made is stashed in a giant warehouse somewhere? Is there really a giant *maple lake* a la the legendary European *wine lake*? Is there a Government of Canada appellation controls on syrup, which is why most of the storebought stuff tastes (imnsho) bland in comparison? How about galvanized pails now supposedly going the way of the dodo due to the lead solder? I suppose really old equipment could have lead solders and thus it would be more of a concern there, but all my stuff is no more than 5 yrs old Atkinson products, and has no seams.

So if you can dispel all or any of the above, some are my thoughts and others have contributed, please do so. And if you have any weird stories of your own please share! Considering how long some of us have been sugaring for, there must be quite a few tales out there.

[happy thoughts]

Not being Canadian I only know what's been printed in the US mostly to do with the recent large syrup theft. I believe that Quebec producers hold large reserves as part of a federation to help stabilize prices. Whether your national government is involved I can't tell you and how that federation works I can't tell you either. Maple lake??? I doubt it. I doubt you burn maple syrup for energy either, another myth I've seen floating around.

And that said, I have another myth I've been wondering about. Is it true some of your new plastic bills smell like maple syrup? If that's true then that is totally cool. If it's not true then you guys should seriously think about doing it. Seems like a good subliminal message to use the money to buy more syrup :D

[Pweideman]

Galena,

I chose not to use buckets and went with food grade plastic bags. Not just because the bags are a fraction of the cost but I don't consider galvanized anything food grade.

Paul

[Michael Greer]

I often refer to Canada as "the place where they do everything right" and I realize that it's probably an outsider's view. The giant warehouse of syrup is one of those things that makes good sense to me. If it weren't for some stabilizing structure, last years scarce syrup would have jumped to $150 per gallon. Instead the price remains fairly stable and we can pretty much rely on that. We don't want all our effort to come to nothing in an exceptionally good year.

[Galena]

Galena,

I chose not to use buckets and went with food grade plastic bags. Not just because the bags are a fraction of the cost but I don't consider galvanized anything food grade.

Paul

I agree with you about galvanized not being food grade, but I'm only using galvanized to collect sap and don't use it for anything else. I collect using 5-gallon food grade buckets and everything for processing is stainless steel, with the exception of a small ceramic-lined pot too for the fine-tuning of really teeny batches.

And I do see the sense of using food-grade plastic bags to collect too, but how aesthetic is it? I know kinda silly but I like the look of galvanized.

[Galena]

LOL haven't heard either myth before! No, our new funky plastic $$ doesn't smell of maple syrup, but I guess you could say our maple syrup sure smells like $$...:-)

And now knowing that maple syrup in Quebec IS controlled OPEC-style consortium, guess you are right to some extent...and as for actually using syrup as fuel...well, I bet I'm not the only one who wishes it was this easy...
http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=1053701 :-)

[maple flats]

About the Canadian syrup stolen, In Quebec (the biggest producing region in the maple world) many years ago (as I understand it) A Federation was formed to "help maple producers". In this, producers are required to sell all syrup to the federation that is not sold directly to the consumer at the producers gate. The federation sets the bulk prices each year. Somewhere along the line the reserve in the warehouses got to be huge. I'm not sure but I think about this time the federation set quotas, limiting producers growth to control this extreme inventory. This huge reserve eventually got smaller and controllable (?).
Now, in one of these warehouses some syrup was discovered to be missing. A quantity so large that it would have taken hundreds of 18 wheeler tanker trucks to move it in a short time period.
I question if that "missing syrup" had truly been in their warehouse until shortly before being discovered missing. I would easier believe that this "missing syrup" had been removed over a period of several years and that inventory counts in the warehouses were incorrect (error, dishonest workers, other?).
Hey, you Quebec producers, correct any of my errors in fact here please!

As for gavanized, once considered food safe, alas was not. The original galvanizing process used lead in the process, new gailvanize however does not. Now it comes down to image. Yes the buckets look traditional, but even though yours are newer, I'll bet they don't have an official label saying "food safe" that is big enough for customers to see it from a long distance. Another thing, how much foreign material do you need to remove from the buckets routinely? In newer methods of collection this issue has been addressed, bags, tubing and others.
At 18 taps you may not sell any to the public, but do you give to friends or barter with it? As such you might want to consider some of these things.

[Galena]

Hey Dave...I don't sell my syrup though I do give and barter it. I know galvanized isn't considered food safe...but I feel a lot better giving/bartering syrup with sap collected in my pails than, say, in the olde-school soldered galvanized pails my mentors use. Which probably DO have lead in the solder. As for foreign material, usually very little, maybe some bark. No dead insects or rodents. I assume that's what you mean cause so far as I know the new galvanized buckets don't leach into the sap. Of course if they do, please tell me. In terms of collecting, I check the trees daily and bring in sap as needed.

Meantime nobody, including myself, whom I have bartered or given syrup to has reported any ill effects. Ditto my mentors'. I had a gourmet food business awhile back, I do know a few things about food safety.

[happy thoughts]

Hey Dave...I don't sell my syrup though I do give and barter it. I know galvanized isn't considered food safe...but I feel a lot better giving/bartering syrup with sap collected in my pails than, say, in the olde-school soldered galvanized pails my mentors use. Which probably DO have lead in the solder. As for foreign material, usually very little, maybe some bark. No dead insects or rodents. I assume that's what you mean cause so far as I know the new galvanized buckets don't leach into the sap. Of course if they do, please tell me. In terms of collecting, I check the trees daily and bring in sap as needed.

Meantime nobody, including myself, whom I have bartered or given syrup to has reported any ill effects. Ditto my mentors'. I had a gourmet food business awhile back, I do know a few things about food safety.

galena- because your buckets are newer I think you're safe from lead. The new issue is zinc toxicity which no one really gave much thought to until a few years ago when it was discovered that some people developed zinc toxicity from the denture adhesives which used to contain it. I don't think zinc levels have been determined for maple syrup, at least to the best of my knowledge. I think you'll still be safe because like lead in syrup, a lot will end up in the niter. That means good filtering.... and prompt filtering so it doesn't redissolve back into your syrup.... should decrease it to low enough levels. I think between the lead and zinc issue galvanized is or will be phased out for food contact for that reason.

[CBOYER]

for buckets: look at the reccomended standards for maple equipment, made in 2002..
GALVANIZED FOR GATHERING SAP IS NOT RECOMMENDED... these standard were made more than 10 years ago, please stop using galvanized buckets: sap is acidic, and if you collect sap that start attack galvanized, you concentrate those "heavy" metals in your syrup.
http://www.internationalmaplesyrupinstitute.com/uploads/7/0/9/2/7092109/lmea_-_standards_on_maple_equipment.pdf

For the Fédération des Producteurs Acéricoles du Québec, or FPAQ

The Federation of Quebec Maple Syrup Producers was founded in 1966 with the mission of defending and promoting the economic, social and moral interests of its 7,400 maple businesses. These men and women are working together to collectively market their products. The quality of their work and their products has made Quebec the producer of close to 80% of today’s global maple syrup output.

Federation limits production of Bulk syrup in Qc, to prevent flooding of the market, and keep prices at an acceptable level. If not regulated, assume that prices will go down at least 30%. Qc have 42 millions of taps and produce around 100 millions pounds each year. "Strategic Reserve" raised to 36 millionsd pounds, and a part of it had to be store in a temporary rented warehouse. Independant audits are made every 6 month, and it is at one of these audits that they found the theft. they empty barrels of syrup, and refill them with water, and some were left empty.

[CBOYER]

Maple flats: I question if that "missing syrup" had truly been in their warehouse until shortly before being discovered missing.


http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20130207/NEWS07/302070030/Canada-says-Maple-Grove-linked-to-stolen-syrup-case

a Maple Grove representative confirmed the company purchased syrup from heist kingpin Richard Vallieres last summer at a cost “substantially below normal rates” set by the syrup federation. Media reports say Vallieres is a well-known buyer of illegal maple syrup.

[Galena]

[QUOTE=CBOYER;210813]for buckets: look at the reccomended standards for maple equipment, made in 2002..
GALVANIZED FOR GATHERING SAP IS NOT RECOMMENDED... these standard were made more than 10 years ago, please stop using galvanized buckets: sap is acidic, and if you collect sap that start attack galvanized, you concentrate those "heavy" metals in your syrup.
http://www.internationalmaplesyrupinstitute.com/uploads/7/0/9/2/7092109/lmea_-_standards_on_maple_equipment.pdf...

Wow, good to know esp the part about sap being acidic, I never would have thought...but if that is truly the case with galvanized then why on earth are businesses like Atkinson still making pails? Or maybe mine aren't galvanized but some other form of metal? Why wouldn't they just make them out of stainless steel or any other inert metal?

Getting both confused and a little discouraged now because I so do not want to go to tubing. *sigh*

ETA: Ok just checked Atkinson and my LIDS are galvanized, but my pails are aluminum. So I should be in the clear now, right? Unless of course they go all into the 'aluminum causes Alzeheimer's'...and if that's the case then I'll find some way to line my buckets with stainless, so there is absolutely no whatsoever possibility of it not being foodsafe.

[CBOYER]

if you read the standards documents, you will see that it is not a law: it is reccomendations to reduce the possibility of contamination and to support the quality of the maple syrup. We made near 80% of all maple syrup in Qc, and you will not find any equipment dealer that sold Galvanized buckets here.

[Galena]

Glad indeed that I discovered my Atkinson equipment is actually aluminum, which is the lesser of two evils. But two questions: what metal is used in sap pails produced in PQ then, and why on earth wouldn't the manufacturers simply make it out of stainless steel? I've worked in professional kitchens and though I have seen huge heavy aluminum stock pots used, bye and large the bulk of equipment for actual cooking is stainless. For storage, food-grade plastic.

Also fwiw I did look at plastic pails but didn't like the smell of them, and certainly don't want them imparting that odour to my sap. Seemed to be simply trading one potential problem for another, even if they are BPA-free and not supposed to leach chemicals. Remember those fancy expensive nalgene water bottles? They were considered the best water bottles ever until it was discovered that they leached chemicals into whatever liquid was stored in them.

[CBOYER]

Aluminium buckets are ok, as per the standards. you will not find any corrosive attack from sap to aluminium buckets, except if you dont clean them at the end of season...:rolleyes:
Stainless buckets will be too $$$.
There is thousands and thousands of good shape slighty used aluminium buckets avalaible on the Qc market, since the change for tubings made in the 70's.

They stop using big aluminium pots in Pro kitchens because of pitting that very acidic foods make when heating, that makes pot hard to clean.

And your right for the Nalgene, It is not what we see that is hamfull for us, it is what dissolve and we dont see

[Galena]

You're right, stainless would be extortionate...my 4' deep hotel pan evaporator cost $35, and that was at 50% off! Anyway I have quite enough pails for now. BTW where is Milan, PQ?

[CBOYER]

Milan is a small town of 350 peoples near Lac Mégantic Qc ,in the eastern township, about 40 km north of Maine.
it is where Lapierre, the manufacturer of evaporators, and all maple equipments have is 145,000 taps sugarbush.

[Pweideman]

I agree with you about galvanized not being food grade, but I'm only using galvanized to collect sap and don't use it for anything else. I collect using 5-gallon food grade buckets and everything for processing is stainless steel, with the exception of a small ceramic-lined pot too for the fine-tuning of really teeny batches.

And I do see the sense of using food-grade plastic bags to collect too, but how aesthetic is it? I know kinda silly but I like the look of galvanized.

I agree with you on aesthetics. Some old galvanized buckets would look rather romantic on my old farm. Especially since some of my maples are 150 yrs plus. Funny, all of my animals drink from galvanized water barrels and my horses have been doing it for over 25 years.

So, aesthetics out the window, I use the blue plastic bags zip tied to a piece of PVC pipe that hangs on plastic leader taps. Each set cost less than $2 and is rather industrial looking. Here's a cool selling point for bags. You can check your taps from the house. It's a rush when you see your bags bulging with syrup. When I return from errands I get to drive by my road trees and l can guesstimate my sap run from my truck. It's the simple things that entertain me now ha!

BTW, what are you doing in your profile pic?

[Galena]

...here's a cool selling point for bags. You can check your taps from the house. It's a rush when you see your bags bulging with syrup. When I return from errands I get to drive by my road trees and l can guesstimate my sap run from my truck. It's the simple things that entertain me now ha!

BTW, what are you doing in your profile pic?

Baaahahahahaaaa....those plastic sacks are the funniest things ever!! But I do see your point in you can see sap yield. I dunno. I kinda like the surprise factor of not knowing how much sap is in the pails til i trudge out there with my 5-gallon collecting pail and see for myself. Really like it when I have to have individual 5-g pails, one per tree, as I pretty much had to do for 2011.

Well let's see...in my profile pic I am doing this http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=1041228 and sometimes I wish the syrup thing was this easy... http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=1053701 :-)

[Pweideman]

Baaahahahahaaaa....those plastic sacks are the funniest things ever!! But I do see your point in you can see sap yield. I dunno. I kinda like the surprise factor of not knowing how much sap is in the pails til i trudge out there with my 5-gallon collecting pail and see for myself. Really like it when I have to have individual 5-g pails, one per tree, as I pretty much had to do for 2011.

Well let's see...in my profile pic I am doing this http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=1041228...and sometimes I wish the syrup thing was this easy... http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=1053701 :-)

Well, sounds like you like surprises and I like to know what's coming.

Hey, the first pic is no longer avail but the second one is pretty cool. Thanks. You obviously have a sense of humor brought on by consuming too much sugar or cold Canadian winters that have made you nuts. :)

[CBOYER]

PW, the first pic is avalaible, remove the "...and" at the end of the address

[Pweideman]

PW, the first pic is avalaible, remove the "...and" at the end of the address

Thanks, I didn't see that. Now I clearly see a crazy woman with an axe. Ha!

[Galena]

Thanks, I didn't see that. Now I clearly see a crazy woman with an axe. Ha!

Yes, you do...muwahahahaaaa... had to be really careful as I actually was splitting wood and making eye contact with the camera at the same time, so glad the bf has good timing!! For the Thief shot I had to shoot about 400 frames as I was both model and photog, always makes it a little more challenging to get all the components of a shot right...make sure my hand didn't hide the spigot, body language just right, eyes/face visible enough, hair just right (of course, I mean I am a woman) getting the angle of the gas can just right so it lined up with the spigot...but in the end it was a lot of fun, otherwise I wouldn't do it. I love photography even if at the moment it is taking a back seat to sugaring.

[Galena]

Hey is it true that the fake *table syrup* uses fenugreek seeds to provide maple flavouring? And if so exactly what do they do to the fenugreek to get that flavour? I've had cheeses with fenugreek in them and certainly noticed a light, nutty flavour, but never anything close to maple.

[maple flats]

[QUOTE=CBOYER;210823]Maple flats: I question if that "missing syrup" had truly been in their warehouse until shortly before being discovered missing.


http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20130207/NEWS07/302070030/Canada-says-Maple-Grove-linked-to-stolen-syrup-case
I also question if it was even possible for the missing syrup to be stolen in a short time span. I think it was mis inventoried for a few years and then discovered. Back in the late 60's I was an assistant manager in a 100,000 sf retail store. The manager had one box of "goodies" for many departments that he radically inflated the inventory value. Less missing inventory when the yearly count was taken the more profitable the store looked. He was eventually caught and dismissed. Something similar could have happened in the huge Quebec warehouse, while smaller amounts were quietly removed over a long time, maybe even years. Just my take!

[CBOYER]

Maple flats, thats funny that they found the "mis-inventoried" syrup at maple grove....:lol:

[Galena]

Time to resurrect this thread for the new season! The number of people who ask what I've added to my syrup, usually in terms of flavouring agents, only to see the surprise on their faces when I tell them I never add anything other than fresh sap or distilled water, is priceless. Then I get their emails and send them the flavour wheel.

Oh and today I was reading the latest Kathy Reichs book, Bones Never Lie...very good read and there is a sugarhouse scene involved. You can see what's coming, but I sure appreciated the details she put in. I'll leave it at that ;-)

ETA: Oops think this is the wrong thread I resurrected - this focuses on the big maple heist a few years ago - will have to go back to last season and find the one with all the whacky stories of what peeps here have encountered. Be right back.

[saphound]

Hey is it true that the fake *table syrup* uses fenugreek seeds to provide maple flavouring? And if so exactly what do they do to the fenugreek to get that flavour? I've had cheeses with fenugreek in them and certainly noticed a light, nutty flavour, but never anything close to maple.
The farmer down the road where I USED to buy syrup calls that artificial syrup "Pole Syrup"....says you get that from tapping telephone poles, ha! :lol:

[Galena]

time to resurrect this thread for 2017! Post your crazy maple stories here!

[Cedar Eater]

The "Tapping maples kills the trees" myth was heard again since last year as was the "Maple syrup is only good for pancakes" myth. I saw a show on TV recently where gangbangers quit selling drugs and started selling bootleg maple syrup to shady pancake houses. At <$1/oz. I think they probably all have to live in their mom's basement now.