Wigglies crawling up the trees

[maple flats]

I looked last week and saw none but today I seen a lot of small caterpillars crawling up the trunks of the sugarmaples. What do any of you do? What do you spray and what equipment is needed? I have a pesticide licience but do not have a sprayer made to teach the tops of the trees. I do have an air blast sprayer that would reach about 60-80 ft up but some of my woods trees are over that, the ones in the open are not. Help, ideas please, I have not had these before. I will verify but i suspect they are forest tent caterpillars.

[Fred Henderson]

Call Jeff Duoflo at Duoflo Aerial Spraying in Lowville NY he can tell you what to use for a chemical. He is spraying my trees this year and I know it will cost me cost to 1k. His person just called today for more info. His company has had to hire another pilot because he has so much to do this year.

[cncaboose]

they are almost certainly forest tent caterpillars. I believe DuFlo uses a spray that contains a bacteria, Bacillus thuringiensis, to kill the caterpillars, but I can't guarantee it. They may have other choices too. The B. thuringiensis is environmentally safe and non-toxic to birds and mammals. If you are going to do something about them, sooner is better than later. As they get bigger, they will defoliate your trees. They will be mature and pupating in their cocoons by July.

[mountainvan]

I've been using thuricide, it's one of bts brand names. Kills them in a couple days.

[maple flats]

What kind of spray repeat cycle (spray interval), what is re-entry time?

[mountainvan]

spray every 3-4 days or after a heavy rain, only works on the little ones once they get big they're immune. re-entry time is after the trees stop dripping the blue water. this is a naturally occuring bacteria that your just helping along, it does not effect you unless you spray yourself in the face or lick the leaves after they've been sprayed. You seem to be smarter than that!!. Joking of course. I got mine from sunshine nursery on e-bay. It was here in 3 days. By the way the little suckers don't hatch out all at once, they come in waves so you have to keep an eye on the trees. another good way to kill them, and freak out guys from ny city, is to smush them all in your hand when they're bunched up eating a leaf. let me know how it works out for you.

[maple flats]

I'll try it but i can not reach the leaves and my ladder is not tall enough to smash them, I'll need to spray. I will check with my local supplier tomorrow and if they don't have or can't get it I will chech with your supplier. By the way, MountainVan, Would you please PM me with the contact info and price. How much is needed and anything else you think might help me get it done the first time. I will try using my air blast sprayer aimed at maybe 45-60 degrees upward to see how it seems to work. Then if needed I will get a tree sprayer from TSC, i think they have one rated for 100-120 ft up.

[GregMVT]

We used BTC in Vermont last year and it worked good. However, state approval for it ended on Dec. 31, 2006 and we'll have to use something different at work. You might want to check with the state to see if whatever you're ordering can still be used where you live.

Greg

[maple flats]

I will verify before ordering. What else is good if I must go another way?

[mountainvan]

maple flats, the nydec recommends using the bT. my neighbor is the head dec forester in the catskills and his wife's a retired ranger, who's helped me, and he has no problem with it as long as I don't spray state trees. other than bT crisco spread around the trunk works on trees sitting out by themselves.

[maple flats]

I have looked thru product labels on line and my chem supplier has also. To date I have not found any BT product labeled for forest tent caterpillar that is labeled for Sugar maples AND approved for use in NYS. Can anyone give me a mfgr and product name or product EPA registration number so I can get the info needed. My chem supplier called their distributer who had nothing and they in turn contacted the chem co field rep for help, no ans yet. I find DiPel ES labeled for them but not approved in NYS, DiPel DF and DiPel Pro DF are approved in NYS but not labeled for forest tent caterpillars. Tried Thuricide and other BT products but could not find a label on line yet.
Dave

[ennismaple]

Could be gypsy moth caterpillars. We were infested with them last year. It was so bad I was worried that they would strip every tree in our bush. I didn't see a single egg mass this winter or spring when working in our bush. I hope they never come back! (Wishful thinking, I know!) We sprayed for them once back in the late 80's but haven't needed to since.

Unfortunately, I have seen more tent caterpillar "nests" while turkey hunting this spring than I ever have. If it's not one it's the other I guess.

[mountainvan]

what do you need to know off of the label? I have thuricide in the shed, and will be spraying again tomorrow.

[GregMVT]

I have the MDS form for what we used on campus last year in my office. I know it was a DiPel product but can't remember the rest. I'll check when I get in to work.

Greg

[maple flats]

Mountainvan, I need to know if it has "forest tent caterpliiar" on label under section including sugarmaple and need the exact name on product including the form type (such as "Thuricide EC" or what ever)as well as the mfgr. From these I can get a label to have with me which is required for any one spraying any pesticide. If caught without= big fine and possible loss of certification. Only way around having the label is to have it labeled in sugar maple section for some other maple pest and to say I am spraying for that if asked. It must also be approved for use in NYS if it is new stock. If I had carryover from when it was approved is OK but label would still need to say it is for "forest tent cat" on the label that came with product. This is important to me because I spray my blueberries and can not afford to lose my licence or I lose the whole crop and that is way more money to me than maple. I sprayed for several years and never got checked til 2 years ago, since then I have been asked by a DEC cop 3 times over the 2 years. Newer guy who has too much time on his hands and drives by my operation in his normal daily travels.

[GregMVT]

I have the MDS sheet in front of me for what we used last year. It is DiPel DF. Under the tree section it does list maple trees and that it's good for tent caterpillars, doesn't say forest or eastern. I could try and scan it when I get home tonight if you are interested but I'm sure you can google the information.

Greg

I found this on the web http://www.groworganic.com/pdf/label/pbi265-b.pdf

[maple flats]

Thanks Greg, I think I got enough info and bought DiPel DF today, will spray Fri if weather good enough. Now we have rain thru tomorrow most likely. When rain stops I will spray.
Dave

[mountainvan]

mapleflats, did you ever get my pms on this subject?

[maple flats]

Yes I got your PM's, thanks. I bought DiPel DF but am waiting for the first dry weather to spray. I am going to try using my air blast sprayer, it should blow the spray about 60-70' up, above that I will not be able to get. So far here there is little damage but there are forest tent caterpillars and Eastern tent caterpillars on the trees, very few of any size yet. As soon as a dry day comes I will spray. Last year I had almost zero caterpillars, this year is much worse but still not real bad. If I spray a few times this it may not be real bad next season. My problem is I can only spray up to 15 acres and the surrounding areas will not be sprayed so they will keep re-populating my trees after the spray breaksdown. It will be real hard to really gain control. This should end in 2 or 3 years from the natural cycle of these caterpillars and then it will be a few years before they make a comeback.

[mountainvan]

Caterpillars are getting worse here. Can easily tell which trees I've sprayed and which I have'nt. Good thing about the Bt is after feeding for a couple hours the caterpillars stop so they don't do much damage to the trees. I ordered a double the amount of thuricide and plan to spray monday or tuesday. Going to hit some trees that are infested before they're completly defoliated and the little bastards move into the sugarbush. Right now they're eating roadside and yard trees. I thought it was'nt going to be as bad this year, but I think I was wrong!! Glad I got a vacuum pump for my big bush that's higher in elevation and not as many caterpillars.

[Fred Henderson]

Around Lowville NY it is unbeleiveable what they did to the trees there last year.

[mountainvan]

I may catch a break with the caterpillars. It's supposed to freeze tonight so maybe all of them will too!! Had a couple strong storms with hail and wind today that knocked most of them off the trees, hopefully the hail smashed alot.

[mountainvan]

where did you get the Dipel? Seems no one around here carries Bt.

[maple flats]

I bought the DiPel DF from T&P sales, Vernon, NY 315-829-8000. Tell them you want what Dave Klish bought, won't change price but they will know what you are looking for. When I was there lsast week they had 20 some pounds in stock, sells in 1# bags, mix with 100 gal water for conventional sprayers or min 10 gal/# for mist sprayer. You use 1/2 to 1# in 100 gal water / acre. The label gives rates for smaller qty's to mix. You do need protective equipment while spraying but after 4 hours you can enter with out it. If gotten on any crops there is no wait to harvest, just the 4 hr re-entry interval. If sprayed by air (plane) they use the same #/acre but in up to 3 gal/# mixture ratio. For a speciman label try this address: strawberry.ifas.ufl.edu/chemicalinfo/dipeldf.pdf

[maple flats]

update for 2007. Keeping my fingers crossed, but I have seen very few FTC this season in my woods and in the areas that were devistated last year which were just south of where i tapped some roadside rented trees. I sure hope the population collapsed here and for all of you too.

[cncaboose]

Last year I had a massive die off of the FTC most likely from the polyhedral virus. There was significant damage done to the trees prior to that though. This year there are only a few caterpillars and those are in the dead and dying stages right now from similar causes. They get limp and slow and finally shrivel up in their tracks. The trees look fablulous. just have to hope that it will be a loooooooong downturn for the FTC.

[maplekid]

yeah i had them little things take over a red wing black bird nest and thats one thing i just hate see happen. whent out today and burnt the little suckers with a propane torch( didnt hurt the tree any but i dont think theylle come back after they see there friends burnt to a crisp )

[maple flats]

Maplekid,
Did the ones you had to burn have solid stripes down their back or a line of footprints? Most ones burnt are Eastern tent and not forest tent. Only FTC bother the sugar maple to any extent generally. A solid stripe is eastern tent.

[maplekid]

they have the solid line on there back. does any one know if they damage the tree in any way cause if so i have to burn about 100 trees worth of them things off.

[maple flats]

The solid line ones are Eastern tent caterpillar, their main diet is Cherry trees. They can harm a tree if it is defoliated more than 1 season. If this is the 1st year they were bad, sit tight, all but the trees that were already weak will refoliate and will survive. Next year watch closely, the second year of defoliation further weakens the tree and more die off. Usually nature controls it by preditures population growing as their food multiplies and they eat the caterpillars. One thing to watch on a side note IF YOU OR A FRIEND have horses, they also eat the caterpillars because they are on ir in what the horse wants and the hairs on the eastern tent caterpillar are barbed, one way and many mares will abort their foals when the barbed hairs work their way into the blood vessels of the mare. I learned this whewn I went to a forest tent caterpillar seminar put on my co-op ext from Cornell.
As far as ETC bothering sugarmaples it is only after the preferred hosts are too crowded or dead, but the FTC (forest tent caterpillar) has as its main menu the sugar maple (FTC has like foot prints up it's back) They do not make a tent like the ETC but rather a web that is fairly tight to the limb and does not span across a crotch, their (FTC) tents are quite hard to see unless you are trained as to what you are looking for while the ETC tent stands out for all to see.