Smoky lake full pint half pint

[Ligonierbeech]

Just looking for info on how well this set up works 15-20 gallons hr.???dose it really get that?

[tonylaroccia]

nope!...most I was able to get was 10 with blower. Half pint is rated at..I believe...4-5 gph. With the Smoky lake half pint pan, it about doubled it, with a blower. Just my experience. I'm sure you'll hear how people get 20 but I'd love to see a youtube video of their setup and how they are doing it. I could be doing something wrong....

[Ligonierbeech]

Thanks wood chopper!!

[cadocter]

With ours we are averaging around 12-13 gph. We don't have a blower which I would think could bring you easily up to 15 or better. The key I've found is to keep the fire almost against the front door so that the heat is getting up and against the syrup compartments. I also had extra dividers put in the flue compartment, so this may be helping my evaporation rate as well. I think if I had better wood and was more consistent with my firing I could hit the 15 gph mark without a blower.

[Ligonierbeech]

Thanks cadocter! Did smoky lake put in the extra dividers in the flue compartment?

[cadocter]

Yeah he did. I think it was only like an extra $100 or so but it was well worth the money. I would also think about having a drain put on the flues. I was going to but decided not to because it was extra. I really wish I would have got it put on so I wouldn't have to move the pan so much when draining the flues. If you have any more questions feel free to ask. -Calvin

[Starting Small]

I did a boil last night on a Mason 2X3 which is pretty close to a half pint. I have a blower, arch paper, a wall for the flames to go up ensuring it hits the pan and OK wood. Last night I was between 10-12 GPH. I boiled off about 25 gallons in about 2 hours. Of course I started timing it once I got it up to a boil not when I lit the match. Something like this may not even be worth it for me unless I could get to 20. I would imagine I could since it has flues. Anything that adds surface area has to be a good thing. With the new pan, is there room for a "wall" under the pan or would the flues be in the way? Thanks,
-Dave

[Ligonierbeech]

Thanks Calvin very helpful. Dave,I think the flues are short of the back of the pan. So they clear the wall.

[Ligonierbeech]

Hey Dave just noticed you keep bees! This year will be my third year with bees. Only have one hive but ordered three nucs for spring!how well do your bees over winter up there?

[Starting Small]

Hi Ligonier-Usually they winter over without a problem. Usually 80%-90% survival. I usually run somewhere between 10-15 hives. This winter though I lost about 50%. I take the blame on that though. There were some health problems this past September with my wife and I was not able to prepare them like I normally do for winter. Oh well, you can always count on swarms and making nucs from swarm cells! I will be back up to 12 or 13 hives by June.

When you guys say dividers in the flue pan, does that mean it is designed like a continuous flow? How much extra was it? Thanks!
-Dave

[Ligonierbeech]

I think that is what the dividers are,like a continuous flow.

[cadocter]

Yes there's room, but I had to take one row of half bricks off of the top of the wall. The extra dividers were I think $100 or so. You would have to call Jim to make sure though.

[Forrest hunters]

Is anyone running this with the flues at the front of the arc? Yes it would cut down on your opening to fire, but I always seems to have a hard time getting a great boil in the front section. I have been running a blower on it, but think for this unit it is forcing to much up the stack. Thinking about a damper in the stack and maybe not running the blower.

Ideas?

I ran about 12GPH last year, but would like to get it up even more with less wodd consumption.

[buckeye gold]

I just got mine this winter and I have not had enough sap to get her going good. I had 28 gallons of sap one day is all I had. I built a fire and it went through around 15 gallon in a little over an hour, but I did not build a roaring fire. I new I'd have to shut it down with some sap left. I had played with some water and it pays to run your sap shallow. This is easy if you got the float box, 3/4 - 1" over flues is plenty. I made my draft wall right up against the flues (zero space) so it would force all the heat through the flues. I have a blower and was getting 7-10 GPH on my old pan. I had the wall built high on it too. During my playing and sap boil I never got a good boil in the syrup pans. I usually finish on gas anyway so I'm not super concerned with that. I think you will need to fire as much forward as possible. Forrest, I'm glad you asked about flipping the pan, I was thinking of trying that very thing. I think you can still load enough wood with it turned, let us know if you try that. I will if I do. I'll be honest if it only does 12GPH I'll be disappointed. I don't know about the rest of you, but my dealings with Jim were not a stellar customer to vendor experience. I hope he didn't over claim this pans capability! I'll know by next week with the weather that is coming.

[Forrest hunters]

Buckeye, Keep us posted on your boils. I am also wondering about plugging the flue section and each of the channels each night when I shut down. At least the flue from the finish. I bought a couple rubber stoppers last year to do just this and never had a chance near the end of the season to try it. Each time I fired up after letting it sit the gradient was gone and the whole pan and float box looked the same. Made dark syrup near the end of the year. I think if I plug the sections the dark will not thin as much and be as hard to start getting draws each start up.

Thoughts?

[buckeye gold]

absolutely I think you need to block the syrup channels off. I'm not sure I would use rubber though. I had a piece of stainless I wedged against the opening on my old flat pan. I really have high hopes for this pan and hope I'm not disappointed. I'm thinking 20GPH is a stretch though. If I can double my old pan I'll be satisfied but a little disappointed. If you do the math there is a little over twice as much surface area as the original half pint pan. So if you done 5-7 on the old one wouldn't it be logical that you'd do between 12-15 on the full pint. Still that's pretty good for a small unit and you can do twice the taps or spend half the time, both good. However, the claims are higher than that, time will tell. I'm really hoping I'm wrong and this thing sucks sap like a crazy.

I'll have to think hard before I flip the pan, because I'd have to replumb from my head tank around the pan, but I'll try anything to make things max out.

[Sugarmaker]

Sounds like you guys are getting about what it will do! They will only run so fast. You can do some tuning on any rig, to get some improvements. Ramp shape, firing rhythm, wood size and dryness, wood loading, after that just keep chucking the wood to um and boil as fast as it will boil.
Good luck with your boiling. Any improvement in boiling rate is a good thing!
Regards,
Chris

[buckeye gold]

well guys i have played around a little and feel better about the pan, but have determined she won't do the 20GPH claimed. I got 14 GPH average out of it from fire up to shutdown today. I would guess at full fire it was doing 15 to 16. I got a better boil in my syrup sections today by cross loading small wood at the door and leaving the door cracked open. I did not worry about loading the back of the firebox much as the heat seemed to be drawn back through the flues well loading the front heavy. I did have to be careful about coals falling out, but it wasn't bad. So for an average boil rate I'm thinking 12-15 is about it. Still not bad for a small hobby unit that originally was built to do 4-6 GPH. I do have a blower on it.

[buckeye gold]

Well I played around a bit more today and I had a defined start and stop point so I had better measurements. I lowered my sap depth to about 7/8" over the flues and I cooked at 17.3 GPH. I got a better fire today with a little larger wood mixed in so I wasn't loading as often. I still can't get the boil I want in the syrup sections. I actually have higher temps in the first section of the syrup channels. I gave up finishing and drew off at 217 and finished on gas. I discovered I had a lot of backed up near syrup that wasn't moving into the finish section because it wasn't hot enough, I'm guessing. That's actually ok with me as I like drawing off larger batches and finishing on gas. That way all my syrup is the same. Even having to finish off the evaporator it's a big plus to concentrate that fast. I didn't know how to act being done in 3 hours....Whoo hoo

[Birddog]

Nice!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mzstein]

I got the Full pint conversion for this year and put in extra taps in anticipation of 10 gph , but have
been struggling to get 5-7 . I was hoping someone could give me some advice on their setup
because right now I am drowning in sap .

With my flat pan I had the back wall built up pretty high to force the air up to the pan. I pulled
out just enough brick to fit in the new pan. That was the only modification I made, but I think
I am having issues with airflow. If I close the door , my fire basically get smothered ( even with
the blower on ) . In order for me to keep the fire going good m I have to keep the door partially
open which means smoke in my face and lost heat out the door .

I'm goona pull off the pan tonight and make some modifications, but don't want to reinvent the
wheel . I'm considering pulling more bricks out of the back and also pulling out the fire grate, but
I don't want to do something that makes it worse .

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated .

MIke

[buckeye gold]

Mike,

My first question is; how dry is your wood? I ran this pan this year and on my worst days it would do 8-10 GPH. I would guess I averaged 12-15 for the whole season considering first light of fire to stop feeding wood. I know a couple of good sap days I watched the graduations on my head tank and when she was full on super hot fire I done almost 17.5 GPH. where is your blower, is it air over fire or air under? I do air over and I had to modify my orifices so I had more air in the front of the firebox. You want your wall pretty far back in the firebox, but allow room for the flue to draw. Also build it right to the drop flues with little to no space...force that heat through the flues. I think I would add stack, sounds like you don't have enough draw. also I found it does not help to cram every piece of wood possible in the firebox leave some combustion space. At loading I push the coals and half burnt wood back and load new in front crisscrossing as much as possible. You have a serious setup flaw if you can't get 5-7 GPH. I done that on the original half pint pan. It most likely is wood quality or draft related is my guess. I have 13 feet of stack on mine, but I 'm also behind a hill. Still single wall stove pipe is a pretty cheap fix, get a couple sections and try adding.

Do not take out your grates you will lose more draft!

[mzstein]

Buckeye ,

I've got about 12 ft of stack .

My back wall is just low enought to let the pan fit .

My blower is under fire .

I also used to get 5-7 with my old flat pan. That is m concern .
I just wanted to make sure I was not missing something obvious .
I did notice that it did not seen to do a lot of good to load up the
box . I just can't figure out why I can't get any draw . I'm using
the same type of wood and same stack and the fire used to rage !!

I mix scrap pine cutoffs and regular firewood .

I might have to go get some verified dry wood and try it with that
and see if my wood is wetter than I think or if it didn't make that
much difference with the old pan .

I appreciate your input, I'm watching the sap stack up and don't have a
lot of time for experimenting trying to figure out what the variabel is. If
you and other guys are getting 10 GPH out of the box, there is no reason
I can't ( and I really need to at this point ) . I'll try some different firewood .

Thanks - Mike

[Big_Eddy]

Mzstein - what's the tighest area you have in your smoke path? Sounds to me like there isn't enough gap for the flames to get from the fire to the smoke stack and the blower is just pressurizing the arch. Open the door and smoke exits that way instead of out the stack.

If you have an 8" stack, you have a cross sectional area of ~50 sq inches. That means that everywhere in your arch from fire box to smoke stack, you should have a minimum of 75 sq inches, and better still 100 sq inches. You have a blower, so you can stay towards the lower end of that range.

I don't know your pan style, so when you say the back wall is just low enough to fit the pan, what does that mean? If you have 6 drop flues, 6" deep and 1" apart, then you have 40-50 sq inches cross section between and around them. You need another inch or so under them for enough air flow.

Open up your tightest gap a bit and see what happens.

[SapZilla]

It sounds like you guys have reached the rated capacity of this pan, you can't ask for anything better then that! I've had pans/evaporators made by nearly every Canadian manufacturer and they all fell well short of their claimed gph. I can also guarantee that I will never by another piece of stajnless steel equipment anywhere other then from Smoky Lake for the rest if my maple career. When I have a question, I get answers, when I ask for replacement parts, I get them within two days. I've had the pleasure of meeting Jim and the LOVELY Angela, as well as some of their workers, you won't find better people. Now if only they made RO machines.

[tca4570]

Leader half pint is like a wood burner with a syrup pan on top.
6" chiminey under back of pan?
Jim has made a pan to improve that way of cooking.
Next step would be to improve the arch.
Look at the designs of the bigger arches.
Heat is forced to go through the flues, not under.
I have an idea for an add on to change that.
Need to go see one next weekend to be sure.
It would take a regular base stack, not stove pipe fittings.

[TerryF]

My personal experience is to not use pine firewood, low heat value and lots of creosote. Any low grade hardwood would be better than the best pine.

[buckeye gold]

My best guess is the wood. If your set up never changed and you had draw then it has to be the wood. Wood really really makes a difference. I know I ran out one year and raided my half seasoned pile. I couldn't believe the difference, it was pure frustration. Now I use year old wood and I never burn pine. I use all hardwoods, I like beech, sassafras, with white oak and maple mixed in and occasionally locust. Now I know some burn pine, but I'd want it seasoned twice as long as hardwood.

[Forrest hunters]

Well I tried what I said I would and put the pan on backwards and raised my wall in the back to what it was with the flat pan. I can say the syrup sections boil much better and I can draw off consistenly. I believe I am even getting a better boil in the flue section with the flues right in the fire now. I fill it up to the flues and let it burn 10-15 minutes for me to get 1-2 more layers back in there. I stack one layer left to right in the box then the next front to back and keep going. I would say I am in the 15+ gph range when she is all heated up and I am feeding it timely. The best part is I am getting consistent draws which I never got last year. There is a definate color difference in all the sections where last year I think I was making syrup in the flues and could never get it there in the front section. So far light syrup that still needs to be finished on gas. Hope to play more Sunday and next week.

[buckeye gold]

Good news thanks for the report. I may consider this but I would have to reconfigure my feed tank. I adjust my air toward the front and done a lot better. I did actually make syrup in the front section one day when I had a big run. I did notice that it had a poor gradient on most days. However sap flows where never good enough to have long sustained boils and really build up the heat.

[mzstein]

Just a follow up .

After I took my back wall down another brick and got some dry wood, I just could not
get the pan to draft . I decided that the only thing left was that my stack was somehow
clogged . I was thinking squirell . bird, racoon, etc. I got up on the roof and pulled off
my cap and found out the screen was completely clogged with creosote . I can't believe
I did not figure this out sooner, but it is the same set up I have used and never had a problem
before . I think my wood was damper than I thought and the day I was boiling it was very
cold . ( Also, to clarify, I was burning pine scrap wood i.e. 2x4's etc )

Lesson learned

I appreciate everyones input, it helped me to narrow down my issues . Always seems
like no matter how much you think you have things dialed in , something new pops
up and surprises you .

Anyway, we cleaned the chimney out and fired er up with some certified dry hardwood.
Boiled really good, drafted really good . We got 10 gph pretty easy right off the bat .
Anxiety level is much lower .

Thanks again for all the advice

[mzstein]

Oh , another question about the full pint pan itself .

Once we got everything cleaned up , we stoked the unit up
pretty good to see what it would do. We got it boiling pretty
heavy in the flu pan. So heavy that it was actually boiling over
into the front and back pans . It was boiling so hard, that it
was actually pushing sap into the front pans and also keeping
sap from flowing in from the back pan . When we opened up
the door to check on the fire and restoke, it sucked 2-3 gal
out of the preheater ( via the float box ) . Luckily I was
boiling a deep - over 1 " - so everything was OK .

Has anyone else experienced this ? Is it possible to overstoke
the fire ? I am used to my old flat pan where you just stoked
it up as hot as you could, but I am a bit worried that under
these conditions I could boil too much out of the drop flu pan
and damage the pan or scorch the syrup .

Any thoughts on this ?

Thanks - mike

[Forrest hunters]

I also forgot to mention that I am boiling deeper this year as it seems the thermometer temp would flutuate a bit with lower depth. Not sure if this is draft coming into the pan and cooling the stem or what, but with the better boil I can run it right at the top of the channel cut outs or even just above a bit. Running this deep kept most of the stem in the hot almost finished syrup and fluctaution with temp was extremely minimal. Constant set up now.

[Pibster]

Are you still running the pan backwards? This might be your problem. I've never heard anyone say they had too much fire in their evaporator.

[Forrest hunters]

Pibster,

Are you referring to me? I could never have too much fire. I am doing beeter than I did last year and I am running it with the draw off by the chimney. Working better than when I had draw by the door.

[mzstein]

I think he was replying to me -

I am not running my pan backwards - just got it this year .
I'm not sure that I have too much fire, but since it is a new
pan , I'm concerned I might have too much fire - is that
possible ???

Whenyou say you are running the sap at the top of the
cutouts wouldn't that put you at about 2 inches ??
I've been running at about 1 1/2 and I thougth that
was deep, but since this is my first year on a new pan
I wanted to make sure I have a good buffer . I also
tend to get A.D.D. and try to reorganize my album
collection while I'm boiling or something crazy like
that .

[Pibster]

Sorry, I thought you had said that you had flipped the pan so that the flues were above the firebox. I run my pan around 1-1/4".

[buckeye gold]

mzstein,

are you using any defoamer? I can't imagine too much fire. heck I turned my stack red one day and she never boiled over, just jumped a lot in the flue pan. A little defoamer works wonders.