Sap in Drop Lines

[wildlifewarrior]

Hi guys,

We just switched over our set up this weekend from a 5/16 mainline to a 3/4 line. We made everything as direct as possible with most of the lines going directly to the 3/4 line, and only one lateral with 6 taps on it. I noticed that alot of the drop lines (even on our lines which go to buckets on the ground) were filled with sap and there was only slow dripps into the buckets. The lines themselves were full but no real flow into the buckets or the 55gal barrel at the end of the 3/4 line. The slope on all the lines are in the area of 5-8%. The mainline has about 15 taps onto it. I just find it wierd that there was sap sitting in the drop lines, like up to the taps. Any ideas?

Thanks
Mike

[ennismaple]

Mike - That is completely normal. Unless the sap is running or there's a leak in the line (not recommended) some sap will stay in the droplines and laterals at all times.

[lisound]

i have the same issue. my lines were full today on some trees. no ice damming in the bottom of the line into the bucket and the lids were loose. I was able to get air in the line and they all started to drip pretty good.
I'm using ecosaver taps at5/16 and i think they are too small. you need to get some air in the line or it doesn't drip. 7/16 next year for me.

[mapleack]

lisound, there's nothing wrong with 5/16 taps. Some sap i the line is normal, it'll run out when the tree runs more, plus create natural vacuum as it travels down the line. All air in the line does is make the sap thats there at the moment run out and make the sugarmaker feel good, right then and there. Vented tubing will produce something like 30% or so less sap than closed tubing. If the switch to 5/16 from 7/16 didn't make sense there wouldn't be millions of them in use. Good luck!

[unc23win]

Yea its normal. Sometimes I think it would be better not to have clear tubing. So you don't see the sap sitting there it makes you wonder sometimes but usually build up is sap actually moving good unless it is frozen. Don't vent it let the trees do the work.

[5050racing]

I know nothing but I use 5/16 taps and some of my trees with 2 taps yielding 4 gallons a day for two days last week,save the tree don't switch.

[wildlifewarrior]

UNC, I think yoiu are right with the notion of not having clear tubes, I am constantly trying to rework the angle of the lines and such to make sure that the sap is moving. It plays mind games with you this syrup makin stuff!

Mike

[lisound]

the sap just seemed to sit there. Maybe a drip every 10 sec.
i added another tap to the same tree today and it was gushing...so i just thought the one dripping should be gushing as well.
when the lines freeze do they get locked up by vacuum or something?

[325abn]

If its a used tap it could be clogged.

[northwoods_forestry]

I just find it wierd that there was sap sitting in the drop lines, like up to the taps. Any ideas?

Filled drop lines can be an indication of a problem. It can happen when the sap in the lateral is frozen and the sap is running and filling the drop line, if you don't have enough slope to move the sap in the laterals, or the drop or laterals are obstructed either with a faulty fitting or with debris. I've also had situations where the first drop on the lateral, closest to the main line, will fill up and sometimes even blow out when the sap is coming so fast that it can't drain from the lateral into the main line fast enough.

[maple flats]

Hi guys,

We just switched over our set up this weekend from a 5/16 mainline to a 3/4 line. We made everything as direct as possible with most of the lines going directly to the 3/4 line, and only one lateral with 6 taps on it. I noticed that alot of the drop lines (even on our lines which go to buckets on the ground) were filled with sap and there was only slow dripps into the buckets. The lines themselves were full but no real flow into the buckets or the 55gal barrel at the end of the 3/4 line. The slope on all the lines are in the area of 5-8%. The mainline has about 15 taps onto it. I just find it wierd that there was sap sitting in the drop lines, like up to the taps. Any ideas?

Thanks
Mike

If you have 1 tap and then into the main, you wasted a lot of money to no gain unless you have vacuum on the system. I don't see where you do. With a slope on the laterals you get more sap with more taps because the weight of the sap gives you some natural vacuum. You want sap in the drop and lateral. The steeper the grade the more taps you want. I have a buddy who has 53 taps on one 5/16 line that has a very good slope (maybe 20-30' per hundred drop.) His sap shoots out the end with plenty of force. But even with just 1 tap and into the main, you are getting a little vacuum with the sap in the line. I think it is about 1"/ft of drop. At season's end that will give you over 10% more sap if your average drop is 2'per drop. Don't introduce air or you will lose that 10% gain. For future expansion, if you don't have vacuum but have good slope, make your lateral with more drops teed in, however don't have a drop enter too near the main line (this drop would actually have positive pressure on the tree, you need good fall after the last drop enters the lateral. To see this, pull your lowest tap, remove the CV if used and if sap shoots out the drop when held at tap hole height, you have positive pressure there. With good slope after your lowest tap the sap will be pulled into the drop rather than shoot out, but only until the lower lateral is drained, then it will likely shoot out the tap from the flow of the upper taps in the lateral.
Don't try to over think this, and don't go to 7/16 taps. The 5/16 is far better for the tree, it heals much faster and causes a much smaller compartment in the tree, here sap will never again travel.

[BrianL]

I would think that it is the same priciple as pushing a straw deeply into a liquid and putting your thumb over the end. The liquid will stay in the straw until a force is applied one way or the other, in this case until you vent it by removing your thumb.

[DrTimPerkins]

The liquid will stay in the straw until a force is applied one way or the other, in this case until you vent it by removing your thumb.

That force (or the lack of it) can be gravity (pulling the sap downhill, resulting in natural vacuum), or it can be sap dripping into the tubing at the tree end, or gases coming out of the tree. With any of these, the result is that sap will slowly drip or dribble from the end of the tubing at the tank.

As tempting as it might be, DO NOT VENT, unless your objective is to get LESS sap.

[TerryEspo]

:lol:Poor Doc Tim, lol.

If you had a dollar for everytime you have to tell others DO NOT VENT. I have read that in many posts from you trying to help us.

I am sure it will catch on, just keep telling them.

We are lucky to have you here.

Thanks, going out now to vent my lines so I can have LESS sap to boil !!!:lol:

Terry

[BrianL]

I would think that it is the same priciple as pushing a straw deeply into a liquid and putting your thumb over the end. The liquid will stay in the straw until a force is applied one way or the other, in this case until you vent it by removing your thumb.

I was just giving the easy visual example of the concept. I am also new to tubing but will not be venting