Water line to sugarhouse

[highway]

I would like to run a water line to my sugar house this coming summer. Here is the deal. It is across the road and is not insulated. I will not have a problem with permits and such.
I was thinking I could install a dry hydrant with 4’ of frost protection next to the building after digging a trench from my house to the sugar house. Then somehow plumb through the wall in an insulated box to the inside of the sugarhouse. I would like to install a commercial stainless sink and a hot water heater as well. How do I keep the water lines from freezing inside the sugar house?
Has anyone done this at their sap house? Thanks,

Ed

[DonMcJr]

If you have electricity make sure all the underground is below the frost line and anything above ground put heat trace on it. Heat Trace is a 110V flat wire they make that runs the length of pipe then you insulate it and it heats the pipe a bit to keep it from freezing.

[maple flats]

Or just design it to drain when not in use. A hydrant already drains anything above the valve at the bottom when shut off, so there is only water ready to flow when you open the hydrant. Otherwise you'll need to keep it warm and electric heat is the most expensive way to heat, even if only heat tapes. Then, if you have a power outage, it freezes anyways. I'd drain, and use heat taps only when needed when the hydrant is turned on.

[adk1]

Have you thought about just having a raised water storage tank? Just curious...

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I'm not an expert but have run several water lines without problems. I would dig 5' + trench, insulate under road as frost goes much deeper where plowed. Also sleeve the road portion w/ Schedule 40 or like rigid pipe to prevent crushing under road. At the suagrhouse I suggest what another post mentioned and that would be to have it drain. Unless you want to heat it all of sugaring season, I would drain when not in use. If draining is a problem, i.e roilling slope, etc. Use compressor to blow out water in pipe when not in use. Maybe not daily and not during the couple of weeks when you need it most of course. Use heat tape with thermostat for first few feet below grade and all pipe above grade. Or just leave it trickling at all times during the seasonal use. Could Run two pipes and pipe HW from house (depending on distance). That may not be economical due to heat loss. It could save you from getting another HW heater since you only need the HW and water for a month a year.

Water pipe is great, but Pex tubing can take a little freeze or two without busting or blowing fittings apart. I ran Upinor/Pex in my camp this year. My insulating was poor and the hot and cold line to my kitchen has froze several times this winter. I put a space heater by it and it works right away with no leaks. Copper can not do that. Generally it will burst on freeze number 1. good luck

[briansickler]

If you are going to drain the system in the sugarhouse, maybe one of those on-demand water heaters would be better. I've only heard about them....Don't know how well they work, but some people I know have them. I think you can get propane on-demand heaters. Then you wouldn't be heating up 20-40 gallons of water all of the time just to dump it when you drain the system. They only heat the water you use.
Brian

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Ours goes underground into the RO room (which is heated) and the line outside of the RO room to a sink is sloped to a drain valve.

[briansickler]

The propane tankless on demand water heaters do require electricity. Must be for ignition purposes. This one uses 3 amps.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/AO-Smith-Residential-Tankless-Propane-Gas-Water-Heater-ATI-310-101-/181082373658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a2959be1a

[BRL]

If you go the instant route check out the eccotemp line. They are made for off grid cabins and they are priced nice.

[highway]

Thanks for all the info guys, The on demand hot water heater is a great idea, I had not considered that.

I planned to use a hydrant that would drain, I was trying to figure out how to get everything to drain so it wouldnot freeze. Do any of you use hot water in the sugarhouse? I do have electricity.

Ed

[Michael Greer]

Water seems nice at clean-up time at the end of the season, but during the season, while you're boiling, there should be plenty of hot water generated by the evaporator. We've been using condensate to wash up and there's always plenty available until the last day. Catching it and delivering it to the sink is the only concern.

[heus]

BRL thanks for the recomendation those look extremely reasonable in price.

[briansickler]

We have hot water, but we have a heated 20' x 12' kitchen at one end of the sugarhouse. I heat the kitchen and the water with our outdoor wood boiler. We also heat a large house, a doublewide, my shop and the office with it. There are 3 water heaters hooked up to it as well.

When you do the plumbing make sure you plumb in ways to easily drain everything. Put boiler drains at low points. Run pipes at a slope so they can drain good.

Brian

[maple flats]

For hot water I use a small propane tankless unit. I got it from Sportsman's guide. It was made to run off a 20# tank but I hooked it to my bulk tank. They offer 3 sizes, I was low on funds and only bought the smallest one, thinking I'd go bigger when I had more cash, however, I found the small one to be surprisingly good. It heats about 2 gpm to between 140-150. If I need hotter I just slow the flow a little. I can fill my RO wash tank in short order and have 140 degrees, the max recommended for washing or rinsing. I also have all the hot water needed to clean inside. During the season I run permeate to the heater, at other times I haul water from home. My sugarhouse is 3 miles from my house.

[bowtie]

not sure how much hot water you need but it would cheaper to use a point of contact heater, it would just heat the water in the line, alot cheaper than tankless heater but does not provide alot of hot water. could probably rig a water line into evap stack to give cheap warm water, a heat exchange loop like the onnes used in wood boilers. funny i was thinking about trying to get water to a sugarhoouse, i was thinking a hand driven shallow well with hand pump.

[mountainvan]

I have to drain the pipes at my place every night below freezing. I put a nipple to hook my air compressor up to the pipes, pipe- ball valve- then nipple, and it works great. blows the water out of the pipes.