New Smoky Lake 2x4 drop flue "seasoning"

[Just Enough]

Hey all,

Just got my shiny new Smoky Lake 2x4 pan, (it's a beauty!), and since Jim seems to be busy in his shop, or somewhere, I thought I'd ask this here:

Do these units (Smoky Lake, or new pans generally) need any kind of "pretreatment" for best results? I saw on the Leader site that they recommend a 30 minute baking soda boil, followed by a 30 minute plain water boil... Is this just in case, or due to nasty welds, and TIG welds are nice and clean from the get-go, or is there something left over from the electropolishing that will spoil the syrup?

Any sort of cold wipe down I can give it to achieve the same end?

Thanks!

Mac

[tonylaroccia]

Mac, got my new Smoky Lake drop down pan for our half pint. I just wiped down and boiled. I was told I would get 15-20 gal. evaporation rate per hour. I am very disappointed. I am getting less than 7 with a blower and dry, aged wood. Maybe it's me as I have only been doing this 3 years. I also have a preheater that sits on top so not dripping in freezing sap. I have 52 trees tapped as of 2/14, and with the run this week, after 3 days I went to boil around 135 gallons, thinking 8 hours max. Had to pull an all nighter. Jim must work a full time job and do these sales on the side as communication has been lame. I mean...just respond to email in 24 hrs. Also....zero directions came with mine. Now that I have it, how do we poor off what is left in pan that is trapped in drop down? I wish I saved the $1499.00 and just used the pan that came with my half pint. It was faster and better. I hope this response doesn't discourage you. Please post your findings. As I mentioned, maybe I am doing something wrong.
Andy (Tony is the nickname)
Maybe I'll stick to the wine making....

[briansickler]

I would do the baking soda boil and another rinse boil just to get rid of any possible contaminants left behind during manufacturing. I play it on the safe side. Just my thoughts.

Brian

[jmayerl]

Just boil on it, its ready to go.

All jim does is make maple pans, you have to remember he does get a few hundred emails and calls a day. Im am sure he is busy getting orders filled and everyone and his brother is calling right now.

I have his pans and they perform very well. Dont know anyone else with your pan style but the math says it should do much better. Maybe run the level alittle lower, fire more often and consistent. Not sure without seeing your setup, best of luck.

[briansickler]

Mac, got my new Smoky Lake drop down pan for our half pint. I just wiped down and boiled. I was told I would get 15-20 gal. evaporation rate per hour. I am very disappointed. I am getting less than 7 with a blower and dry, aged wood. Maybe it's me as I have only been doing this 3 years. I also have a preheater that sits on top so not dripping in freezing sap. I have 52 trees tapped as of 2/14, and with the run this week, after 3 days I went to boil around 135 gallons, thinking 8 hours max. Had to pull an all nighter. Jim must work a full time job and do these sales on the side as communication has been lame. I mean...just respond to email in 24 hrs. Also....zero directions came with mine. Now that I have it, how do we poor off what is left in pan that is trapped in drop down? I wish I saved the $1499.00 and just used the pan that came with my half pint. It was faster and better. I hope this response doesn't discourage you. Please post your findings. As I mentioned, maybe I am doing something wrong.
Andy (Tony is the nickname)
Maybe I'll stick to the wine making....

Try running a lower sap level....Or maybe the blower is to much and you are blowing all the heat right up the stack. Can you slow the blower down? Try it without the blower with natural draft. I don't think a flat pan could be better than one with flues....There's no way. More surface area = faster boil rate. Sounds like the heat isn't getting to the pan. Just my ideas on this problem.

Brian

[briansickler]

I agree with jmayerl. Fire often and more often with a blower. If there's not enough fuel for the extra air the blower will cool the pans. You may have to fire every five minutes or less.

Brian

[lafite]

I've been using the 2x4 by jim. it has doubled my evaporation rate. tweaking the blower and adjusting levels is a learning curve for me. yesterday I was getting 21 gph from 9 gph in my flat pan last year.

[jmayerl]

Tony, get som pics of your setup up and we we'll get you ripping.

[dschultz]

Tony,sounds like it could be one of three things, your wood might be to big in size, to much air, and or not firing often enough.As your boiling try differant way's every few hrs and you will find the sweet spot on how to run it.

[tonylaroccia]

Thank you ALL for your willingness. "Lafite" I am so jealous you are getting 21 gph with your setup. Honestly, I have used the Half Pint for three years and have it down pretty much on how to stack the wood. I actually mix it with broken up pallets and nice hard/dry/seasoned oak. I have a splitter so I cut the oak up so it's no TOO big of pieces. I just listed the outfit here for sale, and also on Craigs List- click here to see images. I also listed on this board under evaporators. I am retired and only a hobbyist. We give MOST of the syrup away. I want to get a bigger unit, which I've found locally. I also have the guy that is selling it that will come over and guide me if I am screwing up..so..for me, it's worth the extra money to go bigger. I had started (like most of us) with 12 buckets, then 40, and now 75. I know that this season here in CT is unbelievable with sap so far, and unusual to my experience, but I just don't want to screw around and want to do it right. I am looking to boil at least 20 gallons per hour. I'd like to be done in 8 hours...not 24. So...thanks again. Will keep you posted as to how this all develops. Here's the local ad -http://newlondon.craigslist.org/grd/3623903368.html

[Just Enough]

Thanks for the replies. I figured this is the busiest time of year for Jim, so no worries there. I guess I'll do a test boil after a wipe, and see how it looks. Too bad Tony is not having good luck with it, but he does raise another question I have, especially with 0-10F weather coming up tonight and tomorrow...

Is it good enough to have "sweetened" sap down in the those flues at 5-10 F, or should I be planning to suck the stuff out with some kind of little pump? Usually, around here (Eastern MA) it doesn't get much below 20F at night this time of year, but it seems like I can remember several years when my jugs froze up solid, and I'd hate to have sap freeze in those flues and bugger up that nice new pan... Anybody know what boiling temperature equates to what sugar density >>> freezing temp? Or am I better off sucking it all out and saving the sweetened sap in a jug?

Mac

[maple flats]

If you boil at least 4 hrs at hard boil you will not need to draw off. You will get some slush on top but it will not freeze solid. Normally 3 hrs is good, but the extra hour is for an extra margin because of extreme cold. I might also suggest you draw about 1/3 from the draw off side and pout it back into the fresh sap side, just after shut down. Boiling again will re establish the proper gradient.

[Jim Schumacher]

Hello Maple Trader Community! I just want to take a moment to post here, hopefully answering questions for several people at once.

1) There is no electronic polishing done inside my pans. The brilliant finish inside the pan is obtained through the use of highly specialized tooling. There is absolutely no polishing or cleaning done in these pans. The inside of the pan is pure virgin stainless steel, it has never even been touched by a human hand. MY pans need no baking soda or pretreatment as there is no way to get it more clean then it is upon delivery to you.

2) The surface area for heat transfer on these hybrid pans is at least 3 times that of a flat pan of same size. Also, the material used by Smoky Lake Maple Products is more efficient then that used by Leader, so there is no reasonable way the new pan could not out perform the stock one.

3) The flues hanging in the arch does change the dynamics of the combustion in the arch. Sap level in the pan should be kept as low as reasonably safe but more importantly should be kept as steady as possible. Tony, you chose to not have a float box, which is fine, but a float box can achieve a very accurate depth while reducing the risk of an accident. Tony, you bought this pan on ebay, which is why the price was $1499.00. The standard price for this particular pan is $1200.00, the optional float box costs $275.00. I have numerous reports of these high output pans giving amazing results, hopefully you too can get yours tuned in Tony

4) Smoky Lake Maple Products is a very full time job for me. I do not do this on the side. This time of the year I do absolutely nothing but work. I am passionate about this business and EXTREMELY passionate about this industry. I take great pride in building the most efficient, highest quality equipment available. So far I have been able to do this for reasonable cost by having no overhead. I plan on moving forward rapidly. However, the phone rings 25-40 times per hour. I feel bad that I can not handle these calls this time of the year and plan on putting a system in place for next season to improve this. I also have a hard time keeping up with emails, though this is still a better way of getting in touch with me.

Thank you to a fellow member of Mapletrader for bringing this thread to my attention. I hope this cleared things up for some of the users of this equipment. I look forward to being able to spend more time on these forums later. HAVE A GREAT SEASON EVERYONE!!!

Jim Schumacher, Smoky Lake Maple

[tonylaroccia]

Thank you for the response Jim!
Tony

[bairdswift]

Jim, by this you may of just got a new customer. I have spoke with you over the phone before but one thing I dout we will ever see is one of the big manufactures do is post a post like this on mapletrader. Thanx for that, the stuff you make is awesome.