Deep Snow, and 200 gallons of sap....ATV always gets stuck- Help

[TwinBay]

100 taps here...
How do I transport collected sap 500 yards in deep snow using an ATV.
The trailer bogs down with all the weight and the ATV ruts up the soft ground something fierce.
Any help would be appreciated.

Signed.
Mr. Hand Bomb

[sugarman3]

Buy a set of tracks for your wheeler,or something called snowshoes and lots o energy

[sugarman3]

You can always fix ruts with rakes also

[jmayerl]

If you find an answer that would be awsome to share. The most i hauled with soft ground and an atv/trailer was 80 gallons and even thats alot.

[psparr]

I use a four wheeler too. But I'm in the woods. Ruts are fine. I have two 55 gal barrels strapped on. One in the front and one in the back. Keeps the weight even. No trailer to drag around = less ruts.

[mike z]

That's a lot of weight. What size is your machine?

[dschultz]

I have a yamaha grizzly,I built my own trailer and have a 200 gallon tank on it. If there is deep snow we only put 100 in and have no problems.

[psparr]

500 Suzuki Vinson. I don't fill them full though.

[TwinBay]

THanks Guys-

Sounds like there is no simple answer. The travel area is at the base of a hill, so always boggy ground.
We only ever haul 50 gallon at a crack but thats enough to bog the machine in the softest ground.
No other direction to travel, so we usually drag the 15 gallon jugs over to firm ground and then travel by atv

[TexTheDog]

We pull a 125 or 150 gallon container in a Cerka Trailer (http://www.cerka.ca/trailers.asp) it works really well. If we have deep snow, we will keep the trails plowed (plow on the front of the trailer) so we can get around rather easily. We use a 500cc Honda with 4 wheel drive and haven't got stuck. We figure it is easier to keep the trails plowed and not get stuck!

[Big_Eddy]

3 options as I see it.
* Plow the snow
* Use a tractor
* Smaller loads

200 Gals is a lot for a 4-wheeler. What size tires on the trailer? Bigger / wider tires are less prone to rutting.

[TwinBay]

3 options as I see it.
* Plow the snow
* Use a tractor
* Smaller loads

200 Gals is a lot for a 4-wheeler. What size tires on the trailer? Bigger / wider tires are less prone to rutting.

Good points Eddy-
Property is a neighbours lot or I would start plowing weeks ago and let the frost harden up the ground.
Sportsman 500, with a fairly aggressive tire, which doesnt help.
So many dam side hills a tractor would be upside down before we stared.

I think lighter loads will have to prevail

[lastwoodsman]

3 options as I see it.
* Plow the snow
* Use a tractor
* Smaller loads

200 Gals is a lot for a 4-wheeler. What size tires on the trailer? Bigger / wider tires are less prone to rutting.

4th option
make trail with ATV and then use a sled of some sort behind the ATV.

[TwinBay]

4th option
make trail with ATV and then use a sled of some sort behind the ATV.

Will try the sled idea.\
Right now we load into a bush buggy trailer which is not working well uphill

[lastwoodsman]

I have a yamaha grizzly,I built my own trailer and have a 200 gallon tank on it. If there is deep snow we only put 100 in and have no problems.

A trailer is the way to go-- ATV;s are not designed for that king of weight on the machine.

100 gallons is around 800 lbs-- way over limit for a 4 wheeler. Figuring water at 8lbs per gallon actually 8.3. Wouldn't put that on my ATV--somethings going to give----
200 gallons 1600 lbs.

[dschultz]

3 options as I see it.
* Plow the snow
* Use a tractor
* Smaller loads

200 Gals is a lot for a 4-wheeler. What size tires on the trailer? Bigger / wider tires are less prone to rutting. My 4-wheeler has no problem with 200 gals behind it,you don't even know it's there.I have the triler built so it takes 80% of the load.And the tire's are regular 15 inch.

[DonMcJr]

I only have a 2 wheel drive Polaris and I always make a trail first and if it gets real bad I throw my chains on the rear tires...

[Big_Eddy]

My 4-wheeler has no problem with 200 gals behind it,you don't even know it's there.I have the triler built so it takes 80% of the load.And the tire's are regular 15 inch.

I assume you're on level ground. The OP talks about steep hills and side hills. 1800lbs behind a 650lb ATV (even with a 250lb rider) is asking for trouble on any kind of slope, especially in slippery or muddy conditions. If the ATV loses traction, there is no steering and no slowing down. Gravity wins every time. Things can and will go sideways in a hurry. Stay and pray or dash and crash.

Been there, done that - survived to talk about it - wouldn't wish it on anyone else. Keep your towed weight to 50% of the rated load if conditions are in any way slippery or steep. (For reference - published towing capacity of the 2013 Foreman 500 is 385kg or 850lbs)

[dschultz]

Big_Eddy,when we get going here I will post picture's of the land we tap with the wheeler pulling the trailer.

[can'twaitforabigrun]

I would recommend getting yourself a small snowmobile to use for the first part of the season until most of the snow is melted. I've used an elan for many years to haul a sleigh that holds 6 five gallon pails (30 gallons). You can normally find them for under $500 on Kijiji, http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-ATVs-snowmobiles-snowmobiles-Skidoo-Elan-W0QQAdIdZ456878896 You may also want to consider buying/making a sleigh to haul the sap with your atv. This will result in less weight being pulled, due to the lower friction. I good design that I've seen is to use old snowmobile skis for the skis on your sleigh. If you make it yourself or have it custom built, you can make it to the specific dimensions of the container/tank holding the sap and in a way that will be easy to attach to your atv. I can pm you some pics if you want.

[MISugarDaddy]

We put tracks on our Kubota RTV1100 (at my wife's suggestion) and haul two 55 gallon barrels full in it with no problem and we have NO flat land in our sugarbush. It works great and has no problem if the snow is 2 feet deep or if we have mud.

[dakotasky]

Same problem at times. I've been thinking of building a sap sled to pull behind my tractor. I've spent a lot of time researching on the net for pictures and plans but there is'nt much out there. My idea is for this is to reduce the weight i'm pulling when the snow is deep, my trailer is a bit heavy and I think a well thought out and built sled could be an advantage. I want to build it so the runners follow directly in the wheel tracks of the tractor and also has decent ground clearance so not to get hung up on anything or be plowing snow and wide enough to be stable. My tractor is a small farm size, 1946 Farmall A. I believe the horse draw design of sled would work fine with some modifications to pull with a machine. It could easily be built to trail in the wheel tracks of whatever machine your pulling it with. If anyone out there has pictures or suggestions that would be great.

[sg5054]

Take a look at the Jet sleds. I got the smallest one and a Todd Marine water tank that I use on my atv fits like it was made for it. The sleds are rugged and come in 3 sizes. You could build a set of ski's to bolt onto it. The water tank keeps the center of gravity low unlike 5 gallon buckets (tried that).

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I'm wondering if you have downhill slope to work with? If so, set a 25 gal tank in the middle of your woods with a 1/2 inch line out the bottom that leads to another tank closer to where you can access it more easily. If no slope, you could still have the tank in the woods and pump it to another tank. That would eliminate hauling altogether.

[farmall h]

Read my signature and beef up your garden cart...:)

[bearair]

7839

This is what we use. We put only one 55 gallon drum in the trailer. We are low land and have to pass through 100 yards of swamp. When things start to thaw the rig goes through with no problems. The tracks also makes it easy through the snow. Only problem is they are expensive and increase the turning radius.

[maple flats]

I pump my sap 900', but I haul fuel in by either ATV or snowmobile. When the ATV can make it (I have a Polaris 500 HO, 4x4 with chains on all 4) I use that, if there is too much snow I use the snowmobile pulling an ice fishing sled (jet sled). To haul the fuel I have over 1/2 mile to go from at the landowners house, whereas the pumped sap goes to another road across a friendly neighbor's land. When it gets too muddy to use the ATV without making big ruts and too little snow for the snowmobile I carry the gas in via the 900' route, and walk across a swamp to boot. (What we don't do in pursuit of all this fun!)

[shiirooms]

Johnny come lately to this thread, but you may be missing some solutions, unless you insist on using mechanized equipment all the time. My operation is totally manual with 30-50 taps. My last tap is a quarter mile out. I usually have to walking thru 2ft of snow, until I pack it down with snowshoes. Once the trail is set and hardened I can walk over with ease. I pull a heavy duty plastic ice fishing sled with six 5 gal buckets bunged inside. This acts as my bulk transport tank. I collect with two 5 gal buckets tied to an old fashion shoulder yoke. I think you get the idea.
Your operation if adopting a few of the older technics, might ease the collection issue while still using the modern transportation equipment. I use a spoke wheel layout, with a main trail to the central collection point and then walk out to the taps. When plotted out I use three points each servicing a dozen trees.
Been sapping for many years, still use the efficient old method at age 66.
DRB