sap ice...

[JSEDLAK]

Ok, I have read a lot about sap ice and whether or not it is worth boiling or not, and I finally decided to test some. Much to my surprise it read 1.5%, the sap it came out of read 5%. Now the ice I tested was a solid block, not that thin sheet of ice from around the inside of the bucket, so I think that may have something to do with the sugar content. Any thoughts?

[maple maniac65]

what was the sugar content of the remaining sap? Did the ice act as a natural ro?

[ClarkFarmMapleSyrup]

The ice acts as natures Ro... I have some sap that was about 20 gals, and it froze hard for a few days and I collected the non slushiness and tested it. I had between 5-6%. A few days ago, I did it again, and had about 8.5% so maybe I should just buy a big flat open tank instead of an RO in a few years..? :rolleyes:

[JSEDLAK]

The remaining sap tested at 5% but the ice still was reading 1.5%. Also it was a frozen block of sap, not the slushy ice. I am going to check the slush for sugar content today.

[happy thoughts]

The remaining sap tested at 5% but the ice still was reading 1.5%. Also it was a frozen block of sap, not the slushy ice. I am going to check the slush for sugar content today.

As I understand it, the thicker the ice, the more sugar it contains. Thin ice can be mostly water.

[Big_Eddy]

Depends on temperature. Above -5C, the water in the sap will freeze leaving behind almost all the sugar. As the temperature drops, more and more sugar is contained in the newly formed ice. -9C seems to be the temperature where the percentage sugar in ice starts to increase substantially. Obviously if the pail freezes solid, all the sugar is in the ice.

If it went down to -5C overnight and you have a layer on the surface - discard all the ice. If it's been -15 for a week and you have a block of ice, keep the ice.

[Stamford sugarmaker]

I am having difficulty understanding this.

"The ice acts as natures Ro... I have some sap that was about 20 gals, and it froze hard for a few days and I collected the non slushiness and tested it. I had between 5-6%. A few days ago, I did it again, and had about 8.5% so maybe I should just buy a big flat open tank instead of an RO in a few years..?"

Let's say I have a big flat pan and put twenty gallons of 2% sap in it. The entire pan freezes solid. The sap now tests at a much higher sugar content? How did all the water evaporate? Where did it go? If I melted down that twenty gallons of ice to sap, it would still test at a much higher sugar content?

Peter

[Big_Eddy]

Let's say I have a big flat pan and put twenty gallons of 2% sap in it. The entire pan freezes solid. The sap now tests at a much higher sugar content? How did all the water evaporate? Where did it go? If I melted down that twenty gallons of ice to sap, it would still test at a much higher sugar content?

Peter

No - take your big flat pan with 20 gals in it (say 2" deep) and let it freeze over until there's 1/2" of ice on it. Lift the sheet of ice off and throw it away. Now you have ~ 1 1/2" of sap left (15 gals) but all the sugar is still in it. The sap is now almost 3% and you haven't boiled yet.

This only works to a point. Initially ALL the sugar remains in the liquid, but as the concentration increases or the temperature decreases more and more sugar gets captured in the ice.

Throw a skim away, don't throw a block away.

[tonka]

Would this be an idea, get a barrel/tank install a motor on the top with some paddles of some sort in the barrel, put your sap in the barrel and with the motor/paddles agitating the sap with the right temp, in the morning your barrel should be full of slush, dump the slush on a screen/filter so the sap can drain and the ice/water will be separate to throw out.

[Big_Eddy]

Agitation will work against you. Let a layer form on the surface and throw it away. The water will naturally separate up to the eutectic point of the solution
(60% sugar, -9.5C)

[mantispid]

Here's the thing... Unless it is frozen completely solid, the ice does contain a fair amount of sap trapped in spaces within. You may have noticed this when you lift up a huge chunk of ice from a partially-frozen bin and can see air channels open up as the liquid falls out. What I do is keep the ice in another bin and then boil is later when I have a slow weekend. The yield is a lot lower, but there is still some yield.

I discovered the hard way that there was a lot of sugar left in the ice when I threw an ice chunk in a hot pan and scorched the hell out of the pan within seconds.

[sugarwoodacres]

Wish I had 5 % sugar , my highest this year was 2.8 . I did however have solid blocks in some of my 5 gal pails . When it thawed it was less than 1 % . so when its rock hard , I toss it .

[5 Oaks]

I had some soft ice in my pale last night. I had always wondered if it was worth keeping. I took sample of pure liquid sap and grabbed a chunk of "soft" ice. I allowed most of the liquid to drip from the soft ice and placed the chunk of ice in another glass. Let it set in the house over night, allowing the ice to melt and to let them both be tested at the same temp. I tested the sap this morning and it tested 3.2 brix, the sap in the "ice" glass tested 1 brix.

I am a SMALL producer (made one gal so far this year) do you all think its worth the time to keep "1 brix" ice? Or do i save my time and chuck it? I do mine over a fire and may evap a gallon or a gallon and a half an hour.

[Run Forest Run!]

If you are wanting to grab every drop you can, then why not separate out the ice, melt it down and then put the melted ice in a bucket that you can systematically freeze over the next few days. Keep doing that until the liquid that's left has a decent brix number. Just a thought.

[happy thoughts]

Or just keep the ice to keep the sap cold. If you're not collecting much, you're probably not boiling much either and it may be days between boils. The colder the sap can be kept in storage the better.

@ 5oaks- did you mean 1 brix or 0.1 brix? If 0.1, I'd toss it. If 1.0 brix , that's low but if you need every drop you can get then it might be worth keeping it and processing imho.

[Run Forest Run!]

@ 5oaks- did you mean 1 brix or 0.1 brix? If 0.1, I'd toss it. If 1.0 brix , that's low but if you need every drop you can get then it might be worth keeping it and processing imho.

Good question. The ice I tested yesterday measured 0.1. It is now lying on the lawn. :)

[Run Forest Run!]

I had some soft ice in my pale last night. I had always wondered if it was worth keeping. I took sample of pure liquid sap and grabbed a chunk of "soft" ice. I allowed most of the liquid to drip from the soft ice and placed the chunk of ice in another glass. Let it set in the house over night, allowing the ice to melt and to let them both be tested at the same temp. I tested the sap this morning and it tested 3.2 brix, the sap in the "ice" glass tested 1 brix.

I am a SMALL producer (made one gal so far this year) do you all think its worth the time to keep "1 brix" ice? Or do i save my time and chuck it? I do mine over a fire and may evap a gallon or a gallon and a half an hour.

Hey 5 Oaks, I did an experiment today that might help you. I tested some ice in my storage pail this morning and it read 1.0. I didn't really want to chuck it out, but wondered what would happen if I put the ice in a separate bucket and tested it throughout the day. Long story short, at the beginning, the sugar content was 1.0. Later in the day, the melted sap registered around .75. By the time that half of the ice had melted, it was registering .5. At that point I removed the remaining ice and threw that out. I poured the .5 liquid back into my storage pail. I could see that the liquid was gradually being watered down, so at the .5 mark that was as low as I was willing to go. Since you have the ability to measure sugar content in sap, perhaps this is one way that you can maximize the sap that you've collected but don't waste too much time boiling down water.