Cost to setup vac system from start to finish, is my estimate correct?

[Starting Small]

So I am trying to estimate how much it would cost someone to go to vacuum. I am hoping this thread could be helpful for others going from gravity lines or buckets to vacuum. I am doing this for a 150 tap operation. Thanks for the advice and help if I'm missing anything. I am assuming that things like evaporator, collection tank, truck, trees, tubing tool etc is already available from previous years so I did not include. Thanks,
-Dave

Leader 30P (3/4" x 500') Plastic Mainline- $160
500' 5/16 Lateral/Drop Line- $65.00
150 Check Valve Taps- $60.00 (.40 each)
Sap Guzzler Type Vac System- $550
150 Tees- $48.00 (.32 each)
Saddles- No idea how many or how much is needed?
9 Gauge Galvanized Wire 800’ Roll- $64.00
Misc Fittings-$20.00
Total $967

[Tweegs]

You’re probably going to burn up a little more of that 5/16 than you estimate, just a guess, but figure 3 rolls.

You can save a little on your taps by going with seasonal spouts the first year @ something like .17 each. Save the CV’s for the second year.

When I set up my woods, I bought 100 ea. of T’s, end rings, and hook ends. I have a few left over.

Figure 5 taps per saddle as a start, so 30, plus another 15 because you won’t get 5 taps on every saddle…45 total @ about $2.60 ea.

I don’t know about the 9 ga. wire, I used 12.5 gauge high tensile electric fencing wire @ $100 for 1000’.

14 ga. wire is good for side ties, but a cheap alternative, if you can find it, is some old, used 12.5 ga fence wire, regular, not high tensile ( I had a bunch laying around so it was free, but that stuff is all over the place, auctions, old farms, etc.)

Wire ties to fasten the tube to the wire, $11 per roll, 1 roll should do it.

The cheap wire tie tool will run you about $4.


Oh, if you know how to tie a nail knot, you won’t need the Chinese fingers ($17) to stretch the mainline before using the wire ties.

Also, “Gripples” are a beautiful thing for stringing up your wire, 1 at each end of the wire, $1.50 ea.

[ennismaple]

For mainline (assuming decent density of your taps - not spread out), laterals, fittings, misc etc... we figure $10 per tap. = $1500

Used SP-22 pump - say $500

If you can get a 250 gallon Zero tank for $2/gallon you're good to go ($500)

Total invested = $2500

If you make 0.3 gallons syrup per tap = 45 gallons

Sell all syrup in gallon jugs at $50 = $2250 total sales. If you can get 0.4 gallons per tap = 60 gallons = $3,000 in sales (excluding container costs, fuel, evaporator etc..)

Just this simple math shows vacuum pays for itself in 1-2 years. Some of what I noted above can be found for cheaper if you look around.

Good luck!

[mapleack]

Leader 30P (3/4" x 500') Plastic Mainline- $160 Or Black Plastic Water line -$100
5 rolls 500' 5/16 Rigid Lateral Line (30 taps per roll)- $49.00 ea = $245
1 roll 500' 5/16 Drop Line (166 3ft drops per roll) $65
150 Check Valve Taps- $60.00 (.40 each)
Used dairy Vac pump- $300
hobby releaser - $640
110 Tees- $35.00 (.32 each)
40 endline drop hooks (.45 ea) $18
40 slide tensioners (.45 ea) $18
38 Saddles- one per every 4 taps ($2.30 ea) $87.40
12.5 Gauge Galvanized Wire 1000’ Roll- $64.00
Bundle of 6" wire ties $38.00
Misc Fittings-$80.00
Total $1810
1/3 gal per tap or more production bulk = 50 gal = $1540 gross per year. Paid off in 1.2 seasons assuming all other equipment already owned.

[Starting Small]

Is a sap sucker/guzzler type vacuum not a good way to go for $150 taps? Seems like it would be an inexpensive way to avoid a seperate vac pump and releaser. I know there have been alot of conversation on here and it seems to be a good option for the small producer. Of course I may be wrong so I look forward to your responses. Thank you everyone so far who have responded, I am learning alot!
-Dave

[spencer11]

Leader 30P (3/4" x 500') Plastic Mainline- $160 Or Black Plastic Water line -$100
5 rolls 500' 5/16 Rigid Lateral Line (30 taps per roll)- $49.00 ea = $245
1 roll 500' 5/16 Drop Line (166 3ft drops per roll) $65
150 Check Valve Taps- $60.00 (.40 each)
Used dairy Vac pump- $300
hobby releaser - $640
110 Tees- $35.00 (.32 each)
40 endline drop hooks (.45 ea) $18
40 slide tensioners (.45 ea) $18
38 Saddles- one per every 4 taps ($2.30 ea) $87.40
12.5 Gauge Galvanized Wire 1000’ Roll- $64.00
Bundle of 6" wire ties $38.00
Misc Fittings-$80.00
Total $1810
1/3 gal per tap or more production bulk = 50 gal = $1540 gross per year. Paid off in 1.2 seasons assuming all other equipment already owned.
you could get rid of the wire and do it wireless, leader mainline is what i used and it works great without wire

[Starting Small]

Spencer, is there a maximum distance for that kind of mainline? How is it supported without wire?

[markcasper]

I don't know where you guys are getting your 12.5 high tensile , but in Wis. a 4,000 foot roll is shade over $100 from Farm and Fleet.

[spencer11]

Spencer, is there a maximum distance for that kind of mainline? How is it supported without wire?

dont think so, i ran 300' wireless in 1 run and its straight with no sags at all or a VERY little sag. on any runs longer than 100' use a ratchet at both ends, and tighten the mainline up with a come-along and then hook it to the ratchets and finish adjusting from there. to get it really tight you will need to side tie it and it will tighten up even more wen you attach your lats. leave it loose when you put it up during the summer, then finish when it gets cold

[mapleack]

Mark, I'm paying $100 for 4,000' as well, the idea of the theoretical question was cost for 150 vac taps, so I went along with 1,000' of wire instead of buying the big roll. Starting small - the guzzler is indeed a viable option for someone trying a small number of taps on vac. However you're only going to get 15" to 18" at the best I think. If you spend the extra for a real pump and releaser and run 24" you're going to get 20% or more additional sap. Over a couple seasons you'll pay for the added up front cost and then be money ahead in production.

[Starting Small]

I cannot seem to find rapitube online anywhere. What is the actual name of it? I couldnt find it on the Leader website. Also, is a zero tank still need a pump? Does it just take the place of a releaser? I just am not sure of how it works. Thanks,
-Dave

[unc23win]

I believe Rapitube is a CDL product you have to find it at a CDL dealer try looking through the dealers on here. I know one of them carries it maybe Roth Sugarbush. There is also a video on youtube. A zero tank would replace the releaser basically the pump will pull the sap into the tank and then when you get a full tank you woud shut the pump off dump the sap in to another tank and then start the pump back up. The downside is you have to be there when the tank gets full. Plus I don't think you can reach a real high level of vacuum.

[Starting Small]

Thank you UNC for clearing that up. I will probably just go down the traditional road of a pump and releaser. Based upon everyone's help I updated the list below. The only thing I am estimating for cost is the rapi-tube. Please let me know how this sounds and any thoughts if I am missing anything. Thanks!
-Dave

Can I eliminate anything from this list because of going with the rapi-tube?

Rapi-tube 500 feet- $160
5 rolls 500' 5/16 Rigid Lateral Line (30 taps per roll)- $49.00 ea = $245
1 roll 500' 5/16 Drop Line (166 3ft drops per roll) $65
150 Seasonal Taps- $25.50 (.17 each)
Used SP-22 pump - say $500
hobby releaser - $640
110 Tees- $35.00 (.32 each)
40 endline drop hooks (.45 ea) $18
40 slide tensioners (.45 ea) $18
38 Saddles- one per every 4 taps ($2.30 ea) $87.40
Bundle of 6" wire ties $38.00
Misc Fittings-$80.00

Total-$1,911.90 (YIKES!!)

[unc23win]

No problem gald to be of assistance. Also I think Rapitube is the name of the tubing the system for installing it is Rapifisk or something like that. Check out the you tube video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDdHrRzo7qY I think you could use that with any tubing. For me I don't see the adavantages of Rapitube. It was discussed in great lengths there was a thread Rapitube vrs Wire and Tie. Personally I don't like side ties at all. Aslo it was discussed which one was cheaper and I believe wire ties was cheaper. Another option you might consider is that Lapierre makes a pre wrapped mainline where as the line is pre wrapped with a 20 gauge wire holding a 9 gauge wire to the mainline I have 2500' of 3/4". The only downside for me was that I had to find special crimps so I could still use 12.5 gauge wire to tighten it.

[ennismaple]

You can eliminate the 6" wire ties from your estimate if you go wireless.

[spencer11]

You could also get a bender for releaser for around $200 or try to make one, instead of buying a new hobby releaser. Or find a used one of those. You should be able to find a good used pump for around $100, there out there I've seen them. Just check eBay and the classifieds and you will find something

[Starting Small]

Is there a certain type of pump that i should look for? Does a 100.00 pump give high vac? Thanks again to everyone.
-Dave

[spencer11]

The one I got was listed on SBI for 100 but I got a different deal on that. Mine it a gast, not sure what model exactly. Butmitsma direct drive electric one and was pulling a constant 25" when I held the gauge on the pump, and it wasent sealed very well

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Mark, I'm paying $100 for 4,000' as well, the idea of the theoretical question was cost for 150 vac taps, so I went along with 1,000' of wire instead of buying the big roll. Starting small - the guzzler is indeed a viable option for someone trying a small number of taps on vac. However you're only going to get 15" to 18" at the best I think. If you spend the extra for a real pump and releaser and run 24" you're going to get 20% or more additional sap. Over a couple seasons you'll pay for the added up front cost and then be money ahead in production.

wouldnt that be a 30% increase in sap volume, I thought 1" of vac is a + or - 5% for each point?
sap sucker work good, mapleack is right on with vac numbers. one time last year we had like 22" but most time right around 18". we're hooking it up to 350+ taps this year only had 260 on it last year and hoping to set up a real vac system next year and move sap sucker to a smaller bush.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

cost per tap is around 10 to 12 dollars a tap with you doing it yourself.

[Darkhollow Sugar Bush]

275.00 a roll for 500' of raptitube at Atkinsons Maple Supply..

[Starting Small]

You could also get a bender for releaser for around $200 or try to make one, instead of buying a new hobby releaser. Or find a used one of those. You should be able to find a good used pump for around $100, there out there I've seen them. Just check eBay and the classifieds and you will find something

Why then would anyone but a guzzler system if this setup will get high vac and is less money. Even if I got a bender releaser and a used gast pump for $250 it is still $100 less than the guzzler.

[spencer11]

Why then would anyone but a guzzler system if this setup will get high vac and is less money. Even if I got a bender releaser and a used gast pump for $250 it is still $100 less than the guzzler.
A bender will only get to maybe 20", more around 18" regardless of the pump size. A homemade releaser will get to high vac if you do it right. Where a guzzler will run at 27" all day long from what I've heard. With a releaser there is also more chance of a vac leak cause of many more fitting, where there isn't with a guzzler. But you can't let a guzzler freeze, where with a releaser you can, not great for it but it shouldn't break if it freezes

[mapleack]

A guzzler will not run 27", more like 17".

[spencer11]

A guzzler will not run 27", more like 17".
Sorry Thought i saw 27" somewhere. I found the old thread and they said around 17-20"

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?18200-Maple-Guys-Guzzler&highlight=Guzzler