Filter Press or Sirofilter?

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

I have a 7" short bank wes fab filter press. My question is which is better? The one I have now keeps blowing papers a pain. I can get 10 gal threw it in a good night. I have a by pass valve on it so when the pressure rises. I heat the syru up to around 180 -190 before I filter it. Emailed Bascoms and they said the one I have is better and that I might not have enough filter aid.? I experiment with the filter aid seem to have the same results.. The only problem I see with the siro is when the filter inside clogs the syrup slows down. My uncle had a 24" siro, and I believe they were doing 60-80 gals of syrup while changeing the filter cloths twice. I don't know if I should buy a couple more frams if that would help or not. Any comments or suggestions??? P.S If I get a siro I was thinking of the 12".. I think I could hit 20gals a night on really good runs..

[Thad Blaisdell]

When you clean out the filter press, is the cake in the hollow frame solid or slimey? Also do you use a lot of defoamer by any chance? How fast do you try to pump it into the press?

[NH Maplemaker]

I don't know what to tell you about changing to the Siro ! But I was having the same problem with blowing filter paper as you! I called Leader and asked for the person who was the filter guy. Told him my problem and he told me the amount of filter aid to use for my size filter press, worked much better and filtered a lot more syrup before needing to changing filters. I would give them a call for your size filter press! I know it will help a lot.

[tuckermtn]

Something must be up with your short bank. Have you checked the little holes in hollow plates down near the main holes?

I have only twice in 900+ gals blown a paper and those were because my paper holes were not lined up well. The most I have filtered at once with my press (short bank CDL) was 45 gallons. That would have kept going but that is all the room I have in my finishers.

[allgreenmaple]

I have a 7" short bank wes fab filter press. My question is which is better? The one I have now keeps blowing papers a pain. I can get 10 gal threw it in a good night. I have a by pass valve on it so when the pressure rises. I heat the syru up to around 180 -190 before I filter it. Emailed Bascoms and they said the one I have is better and that I might not have enough filter aid.? I experiment with the filter aid seem to have the same results.. The only problem I see with the siro is when the filter inside clogs the syrup slows down. My uncle had a 24" siro, and I believe they were doing 60-80 gals of syrup while changeing the filter cloths twice. I don't know if I should buy a couple more frams if that would help or not. Any comments or suggestions??? P.S If I get a siro I was thinking of the 12".. I think I could hit 20gals a night on really good runs.. I have this press, have had no issues.First run thru the press is when you need a good shot of filter aid to coat papers, then minimal after that, as there is only so much room in the short bank.When I start press initally, I have on bypass & very slowly introduce syrup into the papers, so as to not blow papers. Hope this helps...

[maple flats]

I think you need more filter aid. If you don't have a hollow plate full of filter aid/sugar sand you are not getting the full results. When operating the press, watch the pressure gauge. I start opening the relief bypass valve when it hits 40#. I have a Lappierre. Some brands might be higher or lower. If you break a paper, just let it go to a lower pressure.
Part of it might be the pre charge of Filter Aid. In my first 2 gal or so on new papers I use an extra cup of FA. Then the papers get a good layer built up. After that I run less FA. I don't think I have ever blown a paper except 1 time I used too little FA.

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

I draw off what I make and usually wait t'll I have atleast 5 gals. Then I check the density with a hydrotherm and then heat it to around 180 -190 and then add my filter aid I can't remeber how much it's been a year lol. I think around a 1/2 cup to 3/4 cup. Then run it threw my bypass valve to recirculate it, then close the by pass. Once the pressure rises I slowly open it. Towards the end if I squeeze it to get the last gallon or so and pop goes the filter. I clean the filter press everytime I use it, line up the holes, and make sure frams are in right. It's possible that I'm not using enough filter aid usaully the papers are caked up i'd say 1/8 or so. I've tried more filter aid and I thought it came out gritty. Could it be the papers? Thanks guys

[maple flats]

I use far more than that. I do batches of about 25 gal but draw off 6-7 gal at a time from the finisher into my mixing funnel bottom pot. I mix the FA and then it goes thru the filter press. My first charge on new papers is usually about 2-3 gal. I mix about 2 cups FA, start the filter press and run about half thru to charge the papers. Then I fill my mix pot add another cup, mix it and run it thru. I repeat this until the canner is full or my barrel/or bulk jugs are full or until the finisher is empty. I generally don't leave any in the finisher. Then I start filling the finisher again from the evaporator as near syrup. I rarely need to finish very long before the next batch is ready because I draw off at 6.5-7 degrees above water boil temp. I use my hygrometer in the finisher. At 5 gal with batch you are using far too little FA. Even if you can use less after initial charge, you need more to coat the papers with a layer of FA. The FA does the filtering, the papers only are there to give a surface for the FA cake to form. If you use more FA, you will likely not see the pressure go above about 20-25# on a 5 gal batch. I only clean the press when the press is full or the day's boiling is done. Between batches the press just sets there. I filter hotter than you are too. I filter off the finisher which just finished a batch. By the time I draw into the pot my first 2-3 gal (using a full port 1" ball valve) and then mix the FA and recirculate to final mix I'll bet the temp is down to 185-190. After coating the papers it goes a little faster, doing 6-7 gal batches and the filter plates are hot I get about 190-195. When it is all in the canner I reheat to 185 (often from about 175 degrees in the canner and I turn the canner burner to low) as the canner reaches 190 (while I am canning) I turn the burner off. As it reaches 185 again, I relight the burner again.

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

So what do you guys mean by precharging the filter press? Add some then run it through, then add more filter aid the second time around.? So if I had say 10 gals mix in roughly 2 cups of filter aid? My drawoff setup only holds like 10-12 gals. Also once the papers cool you can't run more hot syrup threw or can you?? Say an hour after the first batch???

[English River Maple]

[QUOTE= P.S If I get a siro I was thinking of the 12".. I think I could hit 20gals a night on really good runs..[/QUOTE]

We bought a used 12" siro and used it for the first time in the 2012 season. We messed around quite a bit with it only to find that we had to double the amount of DE that LaPierre's had suggested to charge the filter paper. We were always pushing through 18gal+ at a time, with no problem. Very easy to take apart and clean, just like changing an oil filter element in vehicle. We'd take it outside, pull the element and rinse with a hose. We love it.

[allgreenmaple]

So what do you guys mean by precharging the filter press? Add some then run it through, then add more filter aid the second time around.? So if I had say 10 gals mix in roughly 2 cups of filter aid? My drawoff setup only holds like 10-12 gals. Also once the papers cool you can't run more hot syrup threw or can you?? Say an hour after the first batch???Your first run thru the press, it is critical to coat the papers well, as this is what actually does the filtering. As far as cool down on the press, I cover mine between drawoffs to keep the heat in....

[Thad Blaisdell]

You want at least 3 cups of filter aid in the first batch. More as the season progresses. after the first batch you will only add a little. It is the first batch that is the most critical. You need to keep the nitre and other contaminates away from the paper. Slowly adding the syrup is another critical step, keep the pressure low, the higher the pressure the more likely to have problems.

[DrTimPerkins]

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/filter_press_brochure.pdf

When people first start using a filter press, the most common problem is not using enough DE or not pre-charging the press properly. If you're blowing papers, chances are you're either: 1) not using enough DE (are the plates full when you break it down), 2) you aren't pre-charging the press (so the papers are clogging due to lack of DE as the filter media), 3) it was too cold and you started it up too fast, or 4) some combination of the above. The DE is the actual filter media, not the papers, so if you don't have enough, it'll clog quickly, raising the pressure, and blowing papers.

If the press cools off between batches, use a bypass valve to slowly ramp up the amount of syrup going through the press until it gets nice and hot again. Some people put their press nice and close to the arch between batches to keep them warm.

There is definitely a learning curve to using a filter press, but once you've got it dialed in, you get fabulous results in terms of crystal clear, sparkling syrup that you will be real proud to put in a glass bottle.

[jason grossman]

we have had a sirofilter for years. i would never go back to a plate press again. we can easily do a barrel or two before changing felts(which takes about 3min). if you want to go faster get two canisters and just swap them out. takes about 15seconds and you are going again

[johnallin]

Jason,
I'm getting a 12" sirofilter from Jim Cermak. Been using felt cone filters for 7 years and wanted to get away from the mess and improve my syrup. Always used 4-5 orlon pre-filters on top of the felt and peeled them off as they got plugged...what a pain. We made nice clear syrup and have always used glass, but it's about to get even clearer.

From what I've seen and read - it's the right choice- and thanks for your input, it help me choose the siro.

[maple flats]

If you have a filter press, just learn to properly use it, don't even consider buying something else. When you know how a filter press will give you super results and you will not blow papers.
Yes, run mor filter aid for the first syrup thru a new set of papers, then you can use less until the hollow plates become full. At 11-12 gal you will not fill the plates on a 3 bank. Then for any repeat use the same production day, just do as Dr. Tim says, start slowly, with the bypass opened and as the syrup starts to get warm out the discharge from the filter (not the bypass) slowly oclose the bypass. Keep an eye on the pressure, for mine I use 40 PSI max, as the plates get hot again you can close the bypass more, but slowly. The warm up might take a couple of minutes from first flow out of clean syrup until full flow.
However, if you are sold on a siro filter, send me the junker you have, I'll scrap it for you!

[Sunday Rock Maple]

We have a 10" press and usually finish about 10 to 15 gallons at a time. We put about 2 cups of DE in each batch. A typical boil for us is about 60 gallons and most often this goes through OK except at the end of the season we may have to change the papers. Last year we quit when we couldn't get the syrup through the press at all (The CV's still were running strong though).

[RiverValleySugarhouse]

Thanks guys for all the advice. Things are starting to make sense. My girlfriend and I always dread the filtering. This might be a dumb question but after every night you have to change the filters right??? Or can you wait t'll the next night when you make syrup and slowy add hot syrup.?

[English River Maple]

Thanks guys for all the advice. Things are starting to make sense. My girlfriend and I always dread the filtering. This might be a dumb question but after every night you have to change the filters right??? Or can you wait t'll the next night when you make syrup and slowy add hot syrup.?

Wash/change the filters daily. Once the press cools, you will need to do the process over again; heat the syrup to 190, mix in the filter aid (may be more than recommended, your own tests will tell just as we experienced), recirculate until filters are charged with DE (syrup will start to come out discharge hose clear instead of a cloudy DE mix) until clear, then run the syrup into your canning/bottling unit. If you want to check for clarity while recirculating, just run a little syrup in a clean glass bottle/jar and check for desired clarity...the end result should be amazingly clear. Dr. Tim is spot on, once you get it, it's super nice and clear. Good luck. Don't throw the press out the window!! :))