evaporator design.

[super sappy]

I looked at the lapierre 2x6 raised flu evaporator yesterday at bascoms open house. I liked this rig alot it was big and shiny with lots of shiny pipes and valves. I think that I would look real good making syrup with this rig.And the price from the maple guys is great. The display model at bascoms was not that impressive as far as workmanship. A closer look revealed the ends of the dividers in the syrup pan not being sealed,In fact one divider at the top had a 1/8 inch gap.Some of the welds seemed rough and also a few sharp edges. I looked at the Lapirre sap tanks up in the barn and the workmanship was near perfect. If I purchased a evaperator and it comes like this I think my head will cave in.Has anyone purchased any welded pans from lapierre?What was the workmanship like?The leader sat right next to it and the workmanship was clean but I think they forgot to put in all the flues.And the price was alot higher..Ok I need to go to work and make some money so I can get this thing.or a bass boat,or a new quad or braces for the kids or..........................Super sappy

[ibby458]

I think a lot of us agonize over an evaporator purchase as much as we did over picking a wife. For the same reasons, too. If you pick the wrong one, you won't know it until too late, you'll curse and scream until you decide to get rid of it, and it's gonna cost money - lots of money - to correct the situation.

It doesn't help that I change my mind a dozen times a day about what I want. I guess I'll just sit back, and see what's available in the used market, and buy the one that's closest to my goals, as long as it's priced within my reach.

[mountainvan]

check out dominion grimm also super. I knew I'd marry my wife after 30 minutes of knowing her. aint that sweet!

[MASSEY JACK]

Van, that is cool... but sappy has a different outlook on wives....

[mountainvan]

not on supers subject but I can not resist. Is he from Utah?

[super sappy]

I need one with a sugarbush. One with lots of money so I can work in the sugar bush.And no F****N chickens that Sh&% on my sap tanks. Now that I have my handgun permit the chicken problem will be solved soon enough. Jack- I think I will go next weekend after Bascoms yesterday I am all pumped up. What for I dont know yet. Good luck with that tank I left the # with your wife.SS

[maplwrks]

Anybody that reads my posts has come to realize that I must be Donald Lapierres' illegitimate son! The proof is in the product, The only evaporator that I feel is better would be the CDL, Dominion/Grimm would be third. Those crazy frenchmen have got it down when it comes to making maple equipment!

[super sappy]

My major concern was the quality control. When I trim a house its dollar bill fits on all cope cuts and miters.It will drive me crazy to see big gaps in the dividers like the one that Bascoms had.At the syrup level they were tight but not sealed.I also think that this would be a spot that is hard to get clean. I think that sugarsand would plug the cracks to prevent backmixing. the other thing i did not like was the 9/16" gap between the doors.Are all of the Lapierre fronts like this?The float box/ draw off box was large and would hold adout a Qt. of syrup. If I were to draw off usind the thermometer once the temp dropped will I be left with a Qt.of sap in the box that is off the heat and I do not think has a chance of being mixed unless you draw it off prior to syrup drawoffand dumping it back in the pan.to finish cooking down?Is this just how it goes with this type of box. The wife told me to shut up and buy the thing already. She does put up with alot. Its not easy being mrs super sappy.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Just glad Leader don't make equipment like that. 8O Must be an illegitimate evaporator. You might cuss my hose connections, but you won't find another flaw in the entire evaporator and the welding looks like it was forged together as one piece and there is not even any evidence of welding. 8O

Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmm! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[super sappy]

I have a leader right now and I like it except that I boil over the partitions in the flu pan. If I did not have a hood I think that my floor would be wet and my arch rusty especially by the stack.I have the oppertunity to tap alot of extra trees next year so I need(want) something bigger.The Leader2x6 flu pan that Bascoms had on display was a drop flu model.I did not stick a tape measure in the arch but I feel that there was room for 2 more flues in the pan. The outside bays on the pan were about 6"or more wide. So on a pan that is 24"wide half of the pans width is flat.There seemed to be plenty of room with the new arch design. On the old arch design the flues are closer to the side of the brick. My vermont special has higher sides also.The new leader just looked sawed off.I am sure that it is a great evaporator and will make just as good syrup as any other but it just did not float my boat. The nice thing about that place is that the different brands are side by side.I need to go somewere and check out a CDL and a D&G super sappy

[Russell Lampron]

Super sappy,

My Algier evaporator has float boxes just like the ones on the Lappiere. The higher density syrup mixes with the cooler stuff in the float box and it all blends together so it all comes out as syrup.

The reason for the wide float box that drops below arch rail is so that the float can drop down lower to let in more sap. This will let you boil with a lower sap level in your front pan.

I hope that the front pan on the one at Bascom's was a mistake and that they are not all like that. Did you notice that the label on the side of the front pan was upside down? Must have been the last one out on a friday.

I like the design of the Lappiere arch, it looks like it will get alot of heat up into the flue pan. I didn't have a measuring tape on me but I didn't think the gap was that wide between the doors.

Russ

[maple flats]

As for the Leader drop flue it does appear to leave room for another flue but after the firebrick is installed it would not be enough in my view. This might be another argument for raised flue as they have flues the entire width. On my 2x6 leader drop flue, both pans 3' long, I look at it as though there is (mine has 4 chanels in each pan) really 2 sections flues and 6 without. I just bought a 3x8 raised flue and the flues are covering full width and this rig has a 6' flue pan and 2' syrup pan. It will be a huge difference.

[brookledge]

I don't get it. :? Wouldn't you think that if you where going to put an evaporator on display for tons of people to come and look at, you would make sure it is flawless. It certainly doesn't say much for Lapierre.
I wasn't able to go to Bascom's open house (wished I could have) but when more than one person responds that they noticed flaws it makes me wonder.
It would be nice to know if that evaporator was just one out of Bascom's stock or was it sent there for the show.
Maybe its just me but first impressions mean alot to me.
Keith

[maple flats]

It does seem they would make sure there were no flaws. That just scares away potential customers. My guess is that someone is catching h--l for showing this and I'll bet Lapierre is holding a meeting at the factory Monday morn about this unit ever getting past quality control and being shipped. Anything I have seen from Lapierre has been very good quality with excellent fit and finish, this does not sound like them.

[super sappy]

May be they feel that what you see is what you get .Therefore there are no false expectations.The kitchen cabinet industry is famous for displaying the A++ wood on the face frame and doors in the showroom. When you purchase cabinets you have to sign a statement that states that the wood will not be a exact match(color ,grain etc. its a natural product). There is alwayse a drawer front or door that I have to take back and fight over to make the customer happy. It seems that the more that I look around I see the quality of most products going downhill.So by showing the actulal pan off the line you avoid the haggle at the end. -Sittin on my *** in the rain,bored -Super Sappy

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I would have to think Lapierre makes first class equipment. I have a 320 gallon tank from them and it is very good quality and I have very happy with it. It does need another brace around the center and the welds are not the neatest I have ever seen, but I am very happy.

I hope there is not a quality issue now as I have ordered a filter press and several other Lapierre items from the Maple Guys.

I have absolutely nothing against Lapierre, but there have been several bashing Leader and one in paticular stating they make nothing but junk and most of these are all pro-Lapierre. The reason I bought the stuff from Lapierre this spring is to support the Maple Guys and of course, their(Lapierre's) prices can't be beat. Of course, maybe they are cheaper for a reason. :? One thing I know for sure is that I called Lapierre twice a couple of weeks ago and was told there were only two people working there--a rude secretary and a rude sales manager. Both calls I was treated almost like a criminal and I didn't appreciate it when they knew I was buying equipment but had a couple of questions. :roll:

[digman_41]

Sappy
Pick a design and a brand you prefer then narrow down your search.
I personally love my old Leader king style with drop flues. I looked at lots of others,they're tried and true design has worked for many years.
If I ever win the Lottery I'm going to buy a new Leader WSE with an Inferno arch. For now I'm just going to keep dreaming.
Mark

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Fred Henderson]

Canada makes the biggest crop of maple syrup, they pay much more for fuel than we do, so they are always looking for better ways.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Considering they make 84% of the world's crop, they should be come up with 5/6(84%) of the new technology. :)

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited

[brookledge]

Does any body know what the price of fuel is in Quebec? Other than it's sold by the liter, I heard that diesel is alot more expensive there than in the states but was just wondering.
I'd probably agree that since more syrup is made in Canada then more research should also be done kind of goes hand-in-hand.
Keith

[markcasper]

Why are most herbicides 3 times cheaper in Canada than in the USA? Especially when they came from the USA in the first place!

Kevin, the high sky factory prices are more complex than just Leaders! The whole dang USA is way too high compared with most other countries

Its our own fault for closed companies and lost jobs. Mark

[Daren]

Most people forget that in order to pay the salaries our workers demand for manual and skilled labor in our country, the higher the price has to be to the final consumer. John Q Public does not have the overhead a company like Leader has, nor the responsibility to its employees for everything from basic health care issues to ensuring they have a job next week. I will probably never afford a new Leader rig, and would without hesitation look at cheaper options, but I can never fault them for how they price their items. As much as the debate will rage on, if you are happy with the rig you buy and the price you purchased it for, then the price was just right! I hope they stay in business for generations to come, as well as all the other manufacturers. Without them all in the game, we would not be having this old debate on which evap is best. That would truely be a loss to us all. :)

[Mike]

With 4 different dealers within 20 miles of each other when you go to each one with a price quote on something, you can usually get a better price..... :D .......Now if the canadian dollar was back up to 1.50 exchange, id be looking aceross the border...... 8O ......This weekend is a good time to buy, they all have open house with some good deals on things......

[markcasper]

Daren, You put the nail in the coffin, "what our workers demand." That is the problem in this country. Labor has demanded so much in the way of $$$$ and benefits that its finally catching up with lost jobs and bankrupt wallets, not to mention the consumer debt in this country.

Not to start a debate or anything, but you say that Leader has more overhead than Jon Q. Public. What about the average dairy farmer or grain farmer today. Do they not have high overhead costs? Absolutely!

How can it be that the dairy farmers still in business can produce a hundered pounds of milk on prices that have remained basically flat for 25 years, but Leader or any other could not produce a product under those same conditions? I will argue with someone who says a dairy farmer is not skilled!

Whether you like it or not, things will continue to get moved around and made and produced where labor is cheapest, assuming that the quality is not in danger.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Kevin,

I hear what you are saying and maybe true, but not likely. A lot of people are dyed in the wool USA and will only buy US cars and maple equipment. There is absolutely no way an American company should be able to compete with a Canadian company in pricing and make high quality products. Most of Leader's employs have been there for many years and they are probably well paid, but just think of how many of you have been at your jobs for many years and are well paid too. I am not takes sides with Leader/Grimm, but you can bet they spends probably many hours each month looking at competitors prices and trying to compete. Same reason you can buy a pair of pliers from China for $ 2 and a pair of quality USA is $ 10 to $ 20. If there was a way for another evaporator company to set up shop in the US and compete in pricing with any Canadian company, they would be here before end of year. :?

[Fred Henderson]

I agree with you Brandon, look at the Canadian companys that are in VT. All their units are made in Canada where labor is cheaper then sold in the US for a few hundred dollars under their US competitor's prices.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Sometimes cheaper isn't better. 8O

[nhmaple48]

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Speaking of service, I sent an email to Randy Gaudette at Leader about 10:30 last night and had a reply with a lot of info in it at 7:48am this morning.

Sometimes you do get what you paid for! :)

[LincolnWoodsLager]

First post! Just discovered this forum a week ago. Thank for all the thoughts on sugarin' and evaporators.

I'm planning to upgrade my 20 tap, flat pan, propane fired hobby to small evaporator, 50-100 taps next year....maybe 100-200 possible years away. Shopping for a 1.5x5 to 2x6 range. Looking for the lowest price/best quality (tough combo!)

I went to Basoms open house last week (nice seminars!) looked Leader's and others there, used too. With the VT maple festival in St. Albans, I made the rounds to open houses today at D&G, Lapierre, CDL/Maple Pro.

you get what you pay for indeed!

I had similar thoughts about questionable quality of Lapierre workmanship and welds in particular. B&G looked immaculate. Leader, impressed me, and Maple Pro too expensive, but nice bells&whistles for your money though. There were three 24X66 units that I looked at Lapierre and all seemed to be in the same quality range - the front doors did not close snugly, there were small gaps around them. Man, can't beat those prices though at the Maple Guys.com!

Tough call always......Chevy vs. Ford vs. Toyota

Have fun, enjoying the sweet crop and the homebrewed beer!

Stop by for a pint on tap anytime......LagerMan

[super sappy]

Just back from the open houses.What a great day.Massey jack forgot the bungee cords and rope so I couldnt buy an evaporator. :D I saw that all of the welds on the surup pans were alike (spot welded on the dividers)except Leader( that new building is real cool)I guess its time for me to shi% or get off the pot if I am going to buy a new evaporator.I wish that I was not so cheap.The new d&g vaccume evaporator takes away what I like doing the most. Watching the sap boil. I bought some new bucket taps from Maple Pro. they are 5/16" stainless tapered on one end and a flair on the other (like a washer welded on) The bucket slides over the washer and sits.We shall see in the spring how they work.-Super sappy