Need help (tips) for flaring 1" solid thin wall copper tubing, PLEASE!

[HyeOnMaple]

I was reading, with great interest, about the drop tube sap pans (May 2009) and I'm all set to start punching and soldering, but have not figured a way to successfully flare the tubing and then the pan. I bought a flaring tool for 1" only to find out it is only for "soft" tubing. Starting to panic with the season less than a month away. Any and all suggestions welcome.

[ericjeeper]

Only thing I can come up with, would be to drill a hole into a plate of heavy steel say 3/8 inch. Drill a hole large enough that your copper will just pass through.On the topside of the plate make a "countersink" per say.hold copper under plate and use a ballpeen hammer to put a flare onto the tubing then slide up and out to remove.
You might have to make up a jig of some sort to buck the tubing from behind. or clamp the plate into a vise, with the vise swung back over the table.
Did I make any sense? I can picture it clearly.

[325abn]

Have you tried to flare the 1" copper?

[Waynehere]

I made a 2x3 pan and a pre-heater pan, 1x2, with the drop tubes. I didn't take any pictures of the process, but with the hard copper you have to anneal the end first. Heat it up to a cherry red with your torch then dip it in cold water. I took a piece of 2"x8"x1' lumber, drilled holes large enough to stand up several pieces of pipe on my bench, and then run my torch down them. Then dumped them into a 5 gal pail of water and filled up the holder again. This will soften the copper so you can flare them without cracking. I then used a 1" flare tool on the annealed end. But this only starts the process for what you want to end up with. Then I turned the tube over and gently tapped the flared end on a hard surface, I have a piece if railroad iron upside down. I used a block of wood on the other end. Careful not to get carried away and start buckling the annealed end. This will get it almost flat, but then I put it in the vise loosely and finish hammering the edge so it is perpendicular. Otherwise you will have a hard time getting he solder to stick unless the surfaces are flat.

Hope that helps.

[HyeOnMaple]

325, I took the point of the flaring tool (that didn't work) and tried a coupl times driving it into the 1". I wound up slipping off to the side so each piece was flared on one side and straighter on the other.

Eric, not having access to a machine shop, I don't think I will be drilling a 1" hole thru 3/8 steel.

[ericjeeper]

Well they do sell hole saws that can be chucked up into a hand drill.

[Jeffrey Hakala]

I bought a press from harbor freight, I think it was a 12.5 ton. I took a 3/4 short extension for an impact wrench and put that inside the 1" pipe I used. I didn't anneal the ends which might have made it easier but I only split a couple out of 78. It worked great once I got into a groove. I also bought the test caps for the 1" pipe WAY cheaper then using the standard caps, .69 cents a piece. I hope i explained that somewhat clear.

[Mikeh]

I did this last year with fairly good luck on 3/4" tubing so I'd think you could size this idea up to 1".

I got a 6" black iron pipe nipple and a matching black iron cap. I believe they were 1". Then I drilled the biggest hole i could in the end of the cap (5/8" in my case) and rat tail filed it out until the copper pipe could just fit thru it. I then filed the top of the cap down a bit so it was flat around the surface of the hole. I rounded over the edge of the hole a little bit but not much. Then I clamped it vertically in the vice with the bottom of the pipe nipple tight against the bottom of the vice cross table thingie.

I cut the copper tubing to be 1/8" longer than the pipe cap was high. I didn't anneal or soften it at all. Just drop it in and set the round end of a ball peen hammer on top of the copper. I whacked that hard with a mallet (NOT a hammer) and it mushed out the copper into a 45 degree flange. Then I used the flat end of the ball peen hammer to tap it down to a 90 degree flange. I finished by holding a flat piece of metal on top of it nice and flat and whacked that with the mallet to flatten the flange down more perfectly.

I did 30 pieces this way and didn't split a single one. I tried thick and thin wall copper and they both flared just fine. You could try the same thing with an oak or maple block of wood and a hole in it but I'm not sure how long it would hold up to the abuse.

[RileySugarbush]

I did this last year with fairly good luck on 3/4" tubing so I'd think you could size this idea up to 1".

I got a 6" black iron ........I tried thick and thin wall copper and they both flared just fine. You could try the same thing with an oak or maple block of wood and a hole in it but I'm not sure how long it would hold up to the abuse.

That is basically what I did, only with a male 37° flare plug instead of the ball peen hammer.

[HyeOnMaple]

Wayne, Jeff and Mike, believe it or not I can use something from each of your suggestions. The place I bought the flange tool from mentioned I could anneal the copper, I will. The test caps sound like a great cost saver, I like. The iron pipe just sounds like fun, I smash. Just have to find a ball peen big enough (and drilling a 1.125" hole through the cap may present its own problems).

Mike, yes I could chuck a hole saw, but I don't see how that would help me to flange it.

John, is the flare plug simply a 1" gas fitting which I could pick up at Lowe's or the like?

Thanx one and all.

[ihuntbear]

what do u use to solder these pipes in without warping pans

[Waynehere]

I used low heat, silver solder and a liquid flux. You can read about this here. http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.6/palmer.html

You have to tin both pieces to be soldered together and then let them blend together with a little heat. I would practice on some scrap if you have any. Keep the heat on the copper when blending...

[lpakiz]

Hey, I think 1 inch Schedule 40 pipe is 1.06 ID-just right for 1 inch OD tube. For a bit of syrup, a high school shop student or his instructor could probably face it off in a metal lathe. One end with a slight countersink to help start the flare, then the other end completely square to finish it. Don't leave a real sharp inside corner in either end-that could cut the soft copper or weaken the corner.

[KenWP]

The easyiest way I found to flare the tubing was to find a piece of steel pipe that the copper tube slides into and cut it shorter then the tube the amount you want to flare and then peen it around the top on a hard surface. Takes a minute per tube to do then.

[HyeOnMaple]

Hey Gang, Thanx for all your help. I spoke with John at Riley's and he walked me thru the hole (get it, HOLE) process. As I told him, I've been soldering copper for 30 years, and I LOVE my Turbo Torch with MAPP gas, however,... stainless steel doesn't like it one little bit. As John explained, get a propane torch and set the blue cone as small as possible so you cannot even hear a hiss (maybe just a little). Clean it, flux it with the liquid flux (contains muriatic acid), heat the SS and follow with the solder (lead-free soft flows very easily) and just dab it onto the pan (careful not to heat the solder with the torch). Make your circle and then your next one. John suggested that if the solder starts to bead up, STOP soldering, rinse the area cool, dry it, sand it again, flux it again, and start over. I used regular paste flux on the copper (don't like sniffing burnt MURI acid), and then, on a little higher heat tinned the lip. With a little higher heat still, after dropping the tube thru the pan, I blended the solders (as Wayne said, "keep the heat to the inside of the copper"), and, quite honestly, watching the tube get sucked down to the pan like a magnet almost made me cry with joy. After spending an hour watching it bead and run away from me, this is the most beautiful thing I had seen in a long time (pardons go out to my wife and daughters).

[HyeOnMaple]

Wow Wayne, nice job on the rebuild. Your wife really added a nice touch with the cookie cutter. Did you need special glass for the peep-hole?

[Waynehere]

Hey Mark, thanks... I found the site glass here. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Borosilicate-glass-plate-100-mm-x-100-mm-x-5-mm-/110999929555?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160 Designed for Kilns. Happy Tapping....