add taps or vaccum?

[Mike in NY]

Have a chance to add 400 taps on a gravity system about 3/4 mile away w/ the potential for 700 taps. The main lines are in, the laterals are older stuff. minimal cash but a lot of hrs to get that bush back up. Or would money be better spent putting vaccum on the 450 taps we have at home?whater ever direction we go our evaporator needs to be upgraded /replaced. for 5yrs he's been asking me to take his trees and we are just getting to the point to be silly enough to consider taking them on

[mountainvan]

no brainer. do both!

[Gary R]

My vote is to add vacuum. If your vacuum is deep and tubing proper, you should out produce what the additional 700 on gravity would bring you. However, if you are looking to continue expanding in the future, you may want to lease those trees before someone else does or the chainsaw comes.

[markcasper]

My vote is to add vacuum. If your vacuum is deep and tubing proper, you should out produce what the additional 700 on gravity would bring you. However, if you are looking to continue expanding in the future, you may want to lease those trees before someone else does or the chainsaw comes.
Excellent advice!! You may want to very well just get your foot in the door for this year, even if it means no vacuum, if it means securing many future years. Someone else may just be wanting those trees worse than you.

[G.Rainville]

I also agree with Gary. If you can't do both put vacuum in your own woods first. Thenoffer some money or maple syrup to hold trees till next year. Good luck

[maple flats]

I'd add the vacuum this year and add the taps next year. The only thing is try to get a contract on the potential 700 taps to lock it in. Check into Ag exemption in your situation. In New York, a written lease with payments spelled out for at least 5 yrs qualifies the land owner for an AG assessment, which greatly reduces his land taxes. In NY there is a requirement for you to have average annual sales of $10,000 over the past 2 years. This is off your tax return, farm income, any farm income. Your state may be different. If you are large enough, encourage the land owner. If you don't yet have enough farm income, but see it in the near future, let them know what should be ahead, but if you don't think that is in your near future, don't mention it. If he has other land that is leased for farming or if he has farm income, they can all be added for the $10,000 income.
On my newest lease, I encouraged the landowner to pursue the Ag Assessment. I completed the income form and told him how to file for it. After he got it, he told me the savings on his taxes was more than my lease payment (and the year I pd $.75/tap).
If you think you might not be able to get the lease, do the taps this year, but realize that tubing with no lease agreement is a risky investment.

[unc23win]

I would probably try to do both. Especially if the mainline is already there for you. Of course hauling has its disadvantages. Maybe you won't tap all 450, but as others said it is probably a good idea to lease it while you can especially if you are maxed out on your trees.

In my case I was looking to expand my goal was to double so I put in a vacuum as it was cheaper than buying all the line for double the taps on gravity as I have 1160 and at $4.50 a tap it was cheaper to go to vacuum and I even had to build a shed run electric and buy a relaser and a vacuum pump still came in about $1500-$2000 cheaper than the line the supplies to double. I am still working on tapping out just one bush quite a few more taps to add to max out. There is a guy near me that is older and if he gets to where he doesn't tap his trees I might be looking to lease as his collecting tank is right by the road easy.

[Russell Lampron]

Have a chance to add 400 taps on a gravity system about 3/4 mile away w/ the potential for 700 taps. The main lines are in, the laterals are older stuff. minimal cash but a lot of hrs to get that bush back up. Or would money be better spent putting vaccum on the 450 taps we have at home?whater ever direction we go our evaporator needs to be upgraded /replaced. for 5yrs he's been asking me to take his trees and we are just getting to the point to be silly enough to consider taking them on

Add vacuum to your woods first. It is much easier to have everything on your own land. Is there something wrong with your evaporator or is it just too small. If it is just too small think about keeping it and adding an RO.

[vtmapleman]

I just came back from a maple conference put on by Vt Maple Sugarmakers Association. One of the speakers was a Mr. Joel Boutin from Quebec. He is a firm believer that we in the U.S. oversize almost everything including the use of vacuum. He feels that main lines are way to big and due to the size that the sap will heat up drastically compared to smaller mainlines. His study has shown that his sap will be in the 40 - 50 degree range while in larger mainlines the sap could be in the 60 - 70 degree range thus a darker syrup. He has run a test bush (500 tapes) for the last two years that had 40 plus taps on a branch lines with minimal number of main lines normally only 3 to 4 in the bush - totally different than what is done in the states. The real kicker is his lbs per tap - if I remember the number corrrectly it was like 3 2/3 lbs plus per tap, almost a gallon for every three taps - not bad for a gravity system. Oh by the way he oversees about 1 million taps!!!!

[Starting Small]

I just came back from a maple conference put on by Vt Maple Sugarmakers Association. One of the speakers was a Mr. Joel Boutin from Quebec. He is a firm believer that we in the U.S. oversize almost everything including the use of vacuum. He feels that main lines are way to big and due to the size that the sap will heat up drastically compared to smaller mainlines. His study has shown that his sap will be in the 40 - 50 degree range while in larger mainlines the sap could be in the 60 - 70 degree range thus a darker syrup. He has run a test bush (500 tapes) for the last two years that had 40 plus taps on a branch lines with minimal number of main lines normally only 3 to 4 in the bush - totally different than what is done in the states. The real kicker is his lbs per tap - if I remember the number corrrectly it was like 3 2/3 lbs plus per tap, almost a gallon for every three taps - not bad for a gravity system. Oh by the way he oversees about 1 million taps!!!!
What do you mean lbs per tap? Also is the gallon for every three taps syrup/season or sap/day? Another questions is if his 1 million taps are all on gravity or if he just did it on gravity as an experiment? Wondering why we use larger mainlines, is it necessary when using vacuum? Thanks,
-Dave

[wiam]

What do you mean lbs per tap? Also is the gallon for every three taps syrup/season or sap/day? Another questions is if his 1 million taps are all on gravity or if he just did it on gravity as an experiment? Wondering why we use larger mainlines, is it necessary when using vacuum? Thanks,
-Dave

In Canada they generally measure syrup production in pounds/tap

[Hop Kiln Road]

Syrup is 11.5 pounds per gallon, +/- .5 brix I think. What is lost in many of these conversation is that this business is really about the capture and concentration of sugar, not sap. I live in an area where good taps are hard to come by, so I would secure the new bush.

[markcasper]

The legal standard for syrup is 11.03 pounds per gallon.

[wiam]

The legal standard for syrup is 11.03 pounds per gallon.

Where are you talking about? Vermont has a higher density standard than other states so it would be heavier.

[Thad Blaisdell]

My first question is what condition is the old pipe at the site, could it be patched up on the cheap and get something out of it. If that is the case I would do both, then fix the lines correctly next year. If not, how much money were you going to put into that woods. What were you going to spend to put the 400 on vacuum? What is your total budget for anything to be done this year?

I can say the vacuum will be the easiest, as you will not have to truck any sap, but the risk of losing the woods comes into play, as others have suggested get a lease on it now and pay this year.

I would not upgrade the evaporator. Build an RO. Not hard to do. For about $1700 you can build an RO that will take care of everything from both woods.