Very strong peroxide as a membrane cleaner

[Rhino]

Since we are locked in the deep freeze i made a run down to Membrane Processs (where i bought my r.o) and picked up whatever chemicals i needed to wash the machine/membrane. I got alkaline, caustic soda to go with the alkaline, acid, and also a strong peroxide. I never seen peroxide being talked about on the forum. I was told to use it in the later part of the season when sap quality isn't the best anymore. It will super clean the membrane i guess. Do any of you guys use this and how often do you when the weather is warm and the sap isn't top quality? I don't have to use much, 1 FL. OZ. for 20 gal. water.

[wiam]

Have not heard of using peroxide.

Just a reminder not to use a set amount of ro cleaner. You should test pH every time to make sure you have strong enough solution to clean but not enough to ruin membrane.

[markcasper]

Have not heard of using peroxide.

Just a reminder not to use a set amount of ro cleaner. You should test pH every time to make sure you have strong enough solution to clean but not enough to ruin membrane.

Oh..don't you just dump a teaspoon of sodium hydroxide in when you start the wash cycle and another one at 20..C and your good to go?

[Rhino]

Mark, So i am thinking not many producers use a strong peroxide for a wash chemical in the later part of the season when the sap is starting to change in quality? I did get sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) to add to the alkaline. This is my first year with a R.O so as a greenhorn it can be a bit overwhelming to whats involved with maintaining the membrane. If few to none producers respond to this thread as never useing it, i am not going to use it either.

[markcasper]

i have never heard of peroxide for membranes. in all reality you are to have a calibrated ph meter and use the exact amount of hydroxide to match the requirements of your specific membrane. some membranes require a higher ph for proper cleaning than others.

[Rhino]

Thanks Mark, I'm not going to use the peroxide, Was told 10.8 to 11.5 was the PH range for the membrane. Wash with this after every machine useage and acid wash every other run time. Is this the schedule you do also. I realize later in the season things might change but as far as the majority of the season?

[wiam]

I have not seen a need to acid wash during the season. I run a soap wash every day that I use my ro

[Rhino]

Wiam, That part of the membrane care instructions i think i have to go by as far as a acid wash now and then. On a good day we might have 4000 to 5000 gallons of sap to process. I can see getting away with that if you have low gallon totals to run through. That would be great if i wouldn't have to though. Hopefully more members will chime in on this also. For the acid wash i have notes that say 1.9 to 2.1 ph and 3 FL. OZ of acid for 20 gallons of water.

[tstew]

I talked to leader the other day with questions on ph for wash and acid wash for a particular membrane. Well on the phone I asked what they recommend for frequencey of acid wash and they said 3 to 4 times a season depending on the membrane performance. Hope this helps.

[Rhino]

Tstew, That makes sense then to acid wash every other day, If on a good season we boil 10 times running through 4000 or so gallons of sap each time that would be 5 acid washes which is in the ballpark what your dealer told you. Thanks.

[Rhino]

Also I went to some older post and seen that the chemical smbs for storage of membranes smells like rotten eggs, which, the chemical they called peroxide smelled just like rotten eggs also, so i bet thats the chemical i have in that container. I will double check with them for sure, but i bet i misunderstood them saying wash with it during the season when sap quality declines. Alot to take in and learn thats for sure.

[markcasper]

Thanks Mark, I'm not going to use the peroxide, Was told 10.8 to 11.5 was the PH range for the membrane. Wash with this after every machine useage and acid wash every other run time. Is this the schedule you do also. I realize later in the season things might change but as far as the majority of the season?
I have never acid washed ever. What membrane do you have?

[Rhino]

Mark, It's a NF 270 8" Sure is alot of diff. ideas on how to run/maintain membranes. Now i am very interested on how you wash/rinse yours during the season. If i can get away with less chemicals and still get performance out of it and get long life out of the membrane, i am all for that idea. So what i am getting out of your last post is you only do alkaline washes and then rinse and leave the acid wash for the end of the season? Sign me up if thats the case.

[Rhino]

Mark, not to throw you under the bus but i just found a old thread about a survey on how people care for their membranes and what kind of membranes they are useing. All the responses were that they rinse, wash, acid, soap. Wish i didn't have to but looks like it's critical to do acid washes now and then.

[markcasper]

Rhino, i am not familiar with acid washing. i was never instructed anything about acid washing. i have a cdl machine and from what i understand, the acid wash was never "preached" to me, contrary to what Leader says about washing with acid. I am still learning even after owning an ro for 5 years. the nf 270 you don't want to run as high of ph when washing, i believe 10.5 max. for them, where as an xle and mark 1 need to go til 11. now it sounds like not much, but let me tell you it takes alot of soap to raise the ph even .5 when your at these levels.

[Rhino]

I made a call to a buddy of mine to get his opinion and how he handles his wash/rinse cycles. He is also running a 8" NF 270 like me and also has the same R.O as me. He will do a alkaline wash/rinse after every run time, after every 2 or 3 run times he will do a acid wash depending on his sap quality and his flow numbers. (he likes to keep good records of the performance of the r.o). He does the acid wash because he said even though the alkaline wash does a pretty good job of getting his flow numbers up, after 2 to 3 runs, the only thing that brings his numbers up to peak performance is the acid wash. I am looking forward to getting one year of operateing this r.o under my belt, I'm sure like you Mark, a person can always learn more about a r.o season to season. Hopefully i can get my buddy to make a run up to our sugar shack and give me some pointers during the season.

[tstew]

http://maple.h2oinnovation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/H2O_Innovation_Maple_Membrane_Training_2011_ENG.pd f

the above listed address gives a lot of information on various membranes and cleaning. It does not actually tell when to acid wash. I am no RO expert like alot of others I bought my RO used and am trying to figure everything out to keep it operating at optimum performance and not damage the membranes. Used RO's don't really come with alot of instructions and the previous owner was some help but new to RO's as well. Hope this helps. If the address doesn't work let me know.

[markcasper]

Rhino, Now you have me thinking about the acid thing, but my cdl instructions say nothing about using acid. A great one to ask is Joe Polak. You will get a non-biased, one with experience answer.