Need advice on vacuum tubing installation on level ground

[ldick]

I can get about 700 taps from trees that are pretty much in a 2000 ft. straight line (trees no more than 50 ft. from center of line and most much closer than that) on level ground. Would be easy if there was some slope but there isn't. Also because of flooding I will need to keep the lines high (water can easily be 4 ft or more deep when river floods). Obviously I will need to use vacuum because of no slope. Do you think this can be done and what type of tubing system do I need?

[spencer11]

Is it generally flat? Or like up hill? If its fairly flat it shouldn't be a problem, with the high water, you could even have some lines underwater ain't it will be "vacuum tight" (yes I know there be some leaks) but its possible if you need to have them under water when it floods, but as long as you keep it high enough you should be fine with very little slope, you may need a sap ladder or to get to your releaser though

[ldick]

Is it generally flat? Or like up hill? If its fairly flat it shouldn't be a problem, with the high water, you could even have some lines underwater ain't it will be "vacuum tight" (yes I know there be some leaks) but its possible if you need to have them under water when it floods, but as long as you keep it high enough you should be fine with very little slope, you may need a sap ladder or to get to your releaser though

It is generally flat. Almost no slope from one end to the other. How high above the lines can I have the pump before I would need a ladder? A neighbor told me I would need to run a "dry" line and a "wet" line. What determines if one needs both or is that true for any vacuum pump system?

[spencer11]

With that number of taps yes you would probably need a dry line, I haven't run one since I don't have enough taps but there are some threads on that, you could have the releaser a couple feet higher than the end of the mainline, but you will get lower vac levels, to get enough slope on your mainline you wi probably need a couple ladders depending on how long the line is

[unc23win]

Wet and Dry line system you run 2 manlines parallel to each other one directly above the other about 1 to 2 feet apart from each other they run from your releaser to the end of your run to a booster or a manifold. A booster or manifold will make the two lines meet and make a loop.

The bottom line the wet lines has taps going into while the top line dry remains solid with no taps. The top line the dry will help maintain vacuum to the farthest point while the bottom line the wet will collect the sap. If the bottom line the wet freezes and the sap starts to run it will back up and go down the top dry line until the wet line unthaws. A lot of people run vacuum on a slope 1% or less.

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Do you have to run it end to end or could you have your releaser in the middle and run 1000 feet each way? If so, that would help your slope/hieght issue.

[Mark-NH]

If a river runs along it there must be some slope.

[Farmboy]

Im not sure if it will help in your case but I had pretty much flat land so I dug a hole for my tank to sit in with my releaser on top. It worked for me. Mabey you could lower your lines for the season then raise them up high the rest of the year. I do this in one of my neibors woods because they dont mind the look of the lines but want to walk thier dogs in the woods in the summer.

[maple flats]

On a wet/dry system laterals do not enter the wet line. Mains come off the wet line and the laterals enter the main. Then where the main enters the wet dry several methods can be used. Originally a manifold was used with a large tee for the main to enter, and sap will fall to the wet line, air (gasses) rise to the dry line. A newer and simpler method is to use a tee in the main with the side outlet facing up. To this connect a line to loop up and then go to the dry line, at either another tee or down stream a few feet to a Y. The sap in the main then flows to a tee or Y to enter the wet line. This is simpler and far less problems if a tree yanks any parts. Many a manifold have been broken as they get yanks hard as a tree or big limb falls near by. If you use the latter method, run the wet tee or Y with a slight angle up toward the first tee so if any air or gasses get into the wet line the vacuum can draw them out to the separator tee and flow to the dry line. Valves on each are good to have. Size the dry line 1 larger than the wet line. Both wet and dry are run into the releaser.

[325abn]

You could always use a step ladder and put your taps high up in the tress to create your own slope, saving thousands on a vac system. Killing two birds with one stone create a slope and protect you lines from the flood waters which would no doubt rip your lines apart. Yes?

[Thad Blaisdell]

This is what I would do,

First you need a transit to make sure that you can have at least .5 slope.

Run a 1.25 at least 1500 feet and then 1 inch the rest. no dry line necessary.

key is to not have sags. you may need to run 2 wires on the 1.25 to help with that. With the bigger pipe you can overcome the necessity for wet dry, as you are only doing one row. put in posts where necessary every 10-15-20 feet apart, enough to keep out sags..... very important no sags. You may have to put in a sap ladder somewhere in the middle to make it easier.

Hope this helps.

[ldick]

I appreciate all the advice. Still trying to understand how a 2 line (wet and dry lines) system works. Can anyone recommend a good place to read up on it?

[unc23win]

There are two books that I know of North American Maple Producers Manual and Design, Installation and Maintenance of Plastic Tubing Systems both are available form The Maple Guys http://www.mapleguys.com/index.php?category=17

Proctor Maple Research Center has some online publications I know there are some on vacuum not sure if they have any that talk about Wet/Dry lines for sure.

The basic idea is that the wet line will be used to transport sap while the dry line will maintain vacuum if you use one line and have too much sap for it then the sap will stop the vacuum from going any farther. As Thad said one large line could work for you as long as you don't have too many taps going into it.