Buds already popped.. Can these trees still be tapped after season actually starts?

[bloomdido35]

So, Weather seems weird again here in western mass. I have been noticing a lot of buds brightening up recently and today I realized I have a few sugars with buds that have already actually popped.. Normally this is a sign the season is coming to an end.. With another week of 40-50degrees coming...Im still expecting that winter will actually decide to join us at some point this year.. BUT Does anyone know if I can still tap these trees later on.. Also, will these trees still have potential to harbor good sugar levels or do think their content will be low if a good freeze sends them dorment again..

[Mogli]

Darn guess I should check in my woods too. Looking for feedback from others. I am curious at what the potential is for trees that have gone through such a weird warm snap in the winter

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

as long the leaf has started to exposed itself from the bud I think you can keep your taps in.

[bloomdido35]

Well, I beleive its called angiosperm that has already popped and are hanging.. IT seems to be the ones that get more sun.. BUT this is when I would usually start getting that budy smell to the sap and I know to collecting.. I just dont want to tap these trees if its gonna affect the flavor if mixed with good sap.. I still dont plan on tapping for 3 weeks or more depening on weather.. ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS OR OTHER CONVERSATION BASED ON EARLY BUDDING..

[Dave Y]

#1 This is not a weird warm spell, this is a true January thaw. Anyone over 30 should recall that this would occur almost every year. #2 I truly doubt that your buds have popped. Buds will swell a little and reds look huge through out the winter. trees a certainly not ready to wake up yet. your sap will be fine.

[bowtie]

i agree with dave, this is not uncommon to have 4-5 days of "warm" temps in jan. it hit between 62-66 here in western ny yesterday. i think the trees will be fine, the buds may swell but if they did happen to bud out i would think that a cold snap would damage those buds. i plan on watching the forecast and would start to think about tapping the first of feb if it looks good. two years ago i tapped the first week of feb and the sap really did not for about 10 days. last year may be the be start of a long term trend but this year looks like it may be more of a traditional season.

[Greenwich Maple Man]

So, Weather seems weird again here in western mass. I have been noticing a lot of buds brightening up recently and today I realized I have a few sugars with buds that have already actually popped.. Normally this is a sign the season is coming to an end.. With another week of 40-50degrees coming...Im still expecting that winter will actually decide to join us at some point this year.. BUT Does anyone know if I can still tap these trees later on.. Also, will these trees still have potential to harbor good sugar levels or do think their content will be low if a good freeze sends them dorment again..

I'm sorry but I think you must be mistaken. I don't believe any maples are budded or nearing that stage. ITS JANUARY !

[red maples]

I am in seacoast NH and I know it has been warm but buds popped are you sure. reds usually pop first they will begin to swell. the sugars usually pop after reds do. are you sure your looking at sugarmaples??? My reds are even beginning to swell at all yet.

[DrTimPerkins]

Highly doubtful that maple (especially sugar maple) buds would open, or even begin to swell at this time of year. Native trees have pretty well developed dormancy, that have fairly well developed requirements to overcome (ornamentals may not). A few days of warm temperature aren't going to do it. If it did, they would frequently suffer high levels of freeze-damage and significant (or total) bud mortality when the temperatures fell down below about 25 deg F. Losing buds is highly costly from an energetic standpoint (carbohydrate balance). It just isn't in the tree's best interest to let this happen. In 19 years of doing research, I've only seen freeze-damage on sugar maple foliage happen three times. Once in 1986, once in 2010, and once in 2012. It is fairly rare occurance. The only odd-ball type of thing that could happen that might cause the trees to break-bud early would be if they were exposed to some localized heating source and/or high light source (very close streetlights) and/or extremely high nitrogen fertilization source. Even then, it would be highly unusual. Finally, if the buds did start to swell to the point of being perceptible by eye.....it's too late....sap would be buddy.

[English River Maple]

Another helpful indicator of budding over the years to us has been lawn grass or grass in a field growing and greening up. If the lawns/fields begin to green up, the end is near. Last year, we were still boiling and making grade B non-buddy and the green grass was up an inch or so. We were done by the end of that week, the sap coming out of the lines turned to slime. At this point for 2013 here in Clinton County, NY there is no green grass whatsoever, no trees budding. Looks like a colder, below freezing forecast to come later in the week and like that weather will hang out for atleast a few weeks beyond. That said, we're also well north of Mass. The buds on our Red Maples are always large and round...even in the coldest part of the winter.

[Mogli]

What does it mean if the grass has stayed green all winter. The grass in my backyard has yet to brown sadly its still kinda lush, here in spencer Ny

[bowtie]

way off subject but i see that english river maple, you have a 30"x 8' mason drop tube with blower, that is what i am looking to buy either now or for next season. curious as to what you get for gph? thanks

i think the reason the grass is still green is because we have only had snow cover for about 2 wks, and now that it is gone with the sun out the grass will "green" up.grass will "grow" in sub-freezing temps(at night) if the days are warm enough and soil does not have a frost in it. sunday night at my house the ground was covered with nightcrawlers so if there was a little frost in the top of the soil the recent warm spell took care of that, worms will not come through frozen soil. may be the first time i remember being able to"pick" crawlers in jan. i actually thought about for a bit but decided that fishing season was to far off to keep them. things are definately changing!!

[bloomdido35]

I appreciate the conversation about this question.. I wish I could upload a pic so everyone can see the flowers I have.. Its wierd.. Anyway, they are def. maple flowers that have popped but are only on about 1/3 of the canopy of these few trees. And they are def. sugar maples.. I guess Iwill find a few other trees to put those taps in this year.. Its just dissapointing.. These trees are usually such good sap producers cause of sun exposure and being close to mountain water run off.. I have a refractometer and these usually read like 3 on the brix for around 2 weeks straight.. Then the content seems to drop by end of season.. Anyway, thanks a lot for the conversation..

[English River Maple]

way off subject but i see that english river maple, you have a 30"x 8' mason drop tube with blower, that is what i am looking to buy either now or for next season. curious as to what you get for gph? thanks

i think the reason the grass is still green is because we have only had snow cover for about 2 wks, and now that it is gone with the sun out the grass will "green" up.grass will "grow" in sub-freezing temps(at night) if the days are warm enough and soil does not have a frost in it. sunday night at my house the ground was covered with nightcrawlers so if there was a little frost in the top of the soil the recent warm spell took care of that, worms will not come through frozen soil. may be the first time i remember being able to"pick" crawlers in jan. i actually thought about for a bit but decided that fishing season was to far off to keep them. things are definately changing!!

I totally agree, no heavy freezing for weeks at a time + no significant snow cover = grass staying green and ready to grow. We've been somewhat fortunate with the cold temps before last week hit, although the warmth of last week didn't seem to show much of any noticeable effects.

Regarding the Mason evaporator, it more than exceeded our expectations of evaporation rate with 74-76gph with super clean pans and clean tubes. Toward the end of a 4-5hr boil, we were in the 68-70gph range. This calculation is taken starting at full boil and ending at full boil. The manufacturer (Mr. Mason) gives a MORE than conservative figure of 50-60gph. The preheater design needs refining since incoming sap temps fluctuate from high to low and are not as high as we'd like to see when hot. Our float is either calling for lots of sap, or not calling...the sensitivity of the float and the float valve could be better, even though there is a baffle in the flue pan where the float box empties in to reduce sap turbulance. The tube design produces all sorts of chaos inside the sap pan/hood. It boils like hell. Myself and brothers sugar as a family gig and a hobby, taking vacation from work to work more, makin' it all happen...the machine suits/exceeds our needs. Bang for the buck, we love it to say the least.