New to this, looking for some help.

[striker3636]

Hello everyone, I'm brand new to sugaring and looking for some help specific to some equipment I picked up. This will be our first year with our new home in the middle of a 17 acre sugar bush, and we're looking to start sugaring with our kids. I picked up a used evaporator setup with about 120 pails, taps, covers, and everything else really cheap, but unfortunately the guy I got it from had never run it (estate sale) so couldn't answer any questions.

The arch that I got is 4' x 2' and was homemade by a machinist/welder and it's all very nicely welded and fabricated out of 1/4" plate steel, and fully lined with firebrick. It looks like this; I'll put the pans in the next post.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8464/8375243556_464f82604b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375243556/)
IMG_6292 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375243556/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8375242298_8d087ee2a3.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375242298/)
IMG_6291 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375242298/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8358/8374164521_3a43139a84.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8374164521/)
IMG_6288 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8374164521/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr

Some of my questions are;
Do I need to have a grate in the bottom to raise the wood?
The stack opening has no baffle or anything, will that be a problem?
The stack opening is oval and is designed for 6" pipe, which I guess you just bend into the oval shape. Would I be better off on this small of an evaporator going to a larger pipe size? Would it burn better if I welded a plate steel rectangular box, the full width of the evaporator, on top to replace the oval, and then put an adaptor on the box to take 8" or better?
The draft slide in the door seems kind of small, will it allow sufficient air in? If, down the road, I wanted to put a small blower on, would I just mount it on the door?
I just got finished wire wheeling and painting it with high temp, that's why it looks wet in some of the pics.

I'll post pics and questions on the pans in the next post.

[325abn]

What kind of pans?

[striker3636]

So here's the pans.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8183/8374160737_3575edfa35.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8374160737/)
IMG_6285 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8374160737/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8472/8375236044_be42a61c4d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375236044/)
IMG_6286 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375236044/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8374171113_0c1fd41639.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8374171113/)
IMG_6293 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8374171113/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8375246054_c2669e81ea.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375246054/)
IMG_6294 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375246054/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr

And now for the questions....
I have two flue plans and one flat pan. All three together, on the arch, are 24" x 42". The flues on one of the flue pans are deeper than the other one. I hope I'm showing it set up correctly, which is deepest flue pan nearest the stack, and flat pan nearest the door, medium flue pan in the middle.

Each of the pans is then connected by a siphon device. When I first start it up, I assume I put a few inches of sap in each pan, fill/prime the siphon tubes, and then just top up the deepest flue pan closest to the stack as needed. Does anyone see on here anywhere that I could put a float system? I've read that the boil action usually makes the float bounce around too much to have it in the main pan. I don't know if the siphon boxes could somehow work? I presume that if they are working correctly, everything flows from deepest flue pan to flat pan and keeps moving as it's drawn off at the valve? I plan to finish in a propane turkey fryer. Would anyone want to venture a guess as to evaporation rate with this set up? How manageable would 100 taps be with it? Should I maybe just start with 50 and see how it goes? For this year, I'll need to have this outside, hopefully building a sugar house this summer. Since the evaporator is 4x2, having an 8' long 6" stack will do? If the stack goes straight up from the back of the arch, will I have problems with ash or anything coming down into the pans? Should I put a 45 degree pipe in to move the stack outlet away from directly over the pans, considering that I wont have a roof over it this year?

[striker3636]

Here's what the siphon tubes look like...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8503/8375247298_7f8fcbae94.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375247298/)
IMG_6295 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375247298/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr

[striker3636]

And here's how close the stack is to the pan.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8375/8375248612_99a370848a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375248612/)
IMG_6296 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8375248612/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr

[RileySugarbush]

Looks like a deal!

Here are my thoughts on your questions:

You do need a grate. Easily made with heavy angle steel, V down so they fill with ash, 1/4 to 3/8 gaps. The grate should be above the drft door so all air goes up through the grates and fire, no shortcuts.
6" pipe will likely be fine. 8" would be better. * foot of stack should be fine as well. Your back pan will probably boil better if the stack base is near full width so there is flow near the back corners of the rear pan.

A small squirrel cage blower on the door will really help. Separate it a bit from the door so it doesn't overheat.
That is a small draft opening.

[RileySugarbush]

I would have guessed the same setup.
Start with at least 2" of sap until you know how reliable the siphons work. It doesn't look like there would be room in the siphon boxes for a float.
Ashes shouldn't be too big a problem, and moving the stack a few feet wouldn't rally help. Keep it simple and straight.

My guess, with good wood and natural draft 10 to 12 GPH, with a blower, up to 20 GPH

[striker3636]

Why would I make the grates with v down so they fill with ash, wouldnt it make more sense to have them v up so the ash falls down through for removal underneath?

[striker3636]

And does the evaporator run hottest closest to the stack? Is that why the deepest flue pan goes there? I might have guessed it would be hotter closer to the door where the fire is and the draft air comes in. Almost seems like the pans should be reversed, flue by the door, flat finishing pan near the stack?

[RileySugarbush]

Why would I make the grates with v down so they fill with ash, wouldnt it make more sense to have them v up so the ash falls down through for removal underneath?
The ash insulates the steel so they don't warp. If they are the other way, the vees fill up and block the slots in some areas, then the coals in that area don't get burned up and you end up with an uneven fire. I've tried both ways. Pointy side down work much better

[RileySugarbush]

And does the evaporator run hottest closest to the stack? Is that why the deepest flue pan goes there? I might have guessed it would be hotter closer to the door where the fire is and the draft air comes in. Almost seems like the pans should be reversed, flue by the door, flat finishing pan near the stack?

It seems the hottest area is near the back of the firebox. Not by the door and not by the stack. You get nice radiant heat for the flat pan above the fire. Conductive heat transfer in the flues further back. The grates should not go all the way back, only the first 20 inches or so.

Also, if the flues were up front, you would be banging them with wood when you load it.

[325abn]

Nice!! How good of a deal did you get on those pans?

[striker3636]

Nice!! How good of a deal did you get on those pans?

Paid $1000 back in the middle of the summer, pans, arch, about 120 aluminum buckets, about half each of 2 and 3 gallons, covers, spiles, and a bunch of odds and ends like skimmers, thermometers, and a bunch of pre-filters, plus a couple of collection barrels. Seemed like a great deal to me since usually just the pails here are around $5 used without covers.

[maple flats]

I would also make the grates 20" max, front back. Then make a brick wall to push the heat up to the flues, ideally with a slight slope rearward, the wall should end about 4" from the last flue and then be about 6" lower to give a chamber for under the stack. This wall can be a big U shape from front to back and fill the inside of the U with vermiculite, capped with iether bricks or a thin layer of cement to hold it in place. The stack should be at least 8' tall but if you need more that is ok, just no less. No damper in the stack. I also think that small draft door will need a blower, or make the draft door the full width of the fill door. Boiling sap fast reguires lots of heat. Then use good dry wood, split no bigger that a wrist size.

[wiam]

An extra piece of tin between stack and back pan will help prevent sugar from burning on back pan above the fluid level in the pan.

[striker3636]

An extra piece of tin between stack and back pan will help prevent sugar from burning on back pan above the fluid level in the pan.
That's a good idea, I have some heat shield I can use.

[striker3636]

I would also make the grates 20" max, front back. Then make a brick wall to push the heat up to the flues, ideally with a slight slope rearward, the wall should end about 4" from the last flue and then be about 6" lower to give a chamber for under the stack. This wall can be a big U shape from front to back and fill the inside of the U with vermiculite, capped with iether bricks or a thin layer of cement to hold it in place. The stack should be at least 8' tall but if you need more that is ok, just no less. No damper in the stack. I also think that small draft door will need a blower, or make the draft door the full width of the fill door. Boiling sap fast reguires lots of heat. Then use good dry wood, split no bigger that a wrist size.
I'm not sure I'm following all of this one, at least the additional wall part. The arch already slopes up at the stack end.

[striker3636]

I've been reading through lots of posts on blower fans, but having trouble figuring an appropriate cfm for this size of arch. I found a nice all metal 60 cfm that looks like it would be easy to mount. Would that be enough?

[Big_Eddy]

That looks like a sweet setup at a great price. Well done and welcome to the wonderful world of sugaring.

You have it setup correctly. Syrup pan to the front, and there is only one way the rest can go together. Looks like there is no provision for a float - so for starters you're going to have to control the inflow sap by way of a valve, opening and closing as needed. Without a float, start out running about 2" deep until you get to know the way it runs.

Make a grate as suggested. V up the ash insulates the steel and protects it, V down the ash falls off and the steel overheats and sags. Other than that - I'd make no changes to it at all for the first year until I see what can be improved. The air inlet looks a bit small to me, but see what happens first.

The siphons will take a bit to get used to. Submerge inverted in a bucket to fill, turn right way up, and lift into place.

Get a good thermometer, a nice pile of dry wood and go at it.

I think that evaporator is well sized for 120 taps.

Big_Eddy

[striker3636]

So, I made up a grate today, hopefully got it right.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8056/8396111681_2c7e787e7a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8396111681/)
IMG_6304 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8396111681/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr

I had to raise it higher than I might have liked so it would be above the door intake vent. At the back, with my lowest flue pan, I have 8" clearance between the top of the grate and bottom of the flue. Anyone think this might be a problem?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8225/8397191818_0318fc11f8.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8397191818/)
IMG_6301 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8397191818/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8329/8397190522_e025d046fb.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8397190522/)
IMG_6300 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10510084@N03/8397190522/) by striker3636 (http://www.flickr.com/people/10510084@N03/), on Flickr

[Flat47]

Just wondering out loud, here - are those grates too close together? Just looks like limited air flow between each grate. I could be wrong - it happens a lot...

[RileySugarbush]

The spacing and arrangement look perfect! Nicely built.

The only comment I have is it looks like the grates and firebox are very long. If they are much longer than 20 inches you are going to have a hard time keeping wood over the whole area and if there is an empty area, draft air will bypass the fire and cool your flues. Even if you keep it filled it is really not the most efficient setup.

If you can figure a way to shorten up the firebox and raise the arch floor under the drip flues you will be way ahead.

[striker3636]

The spacing and arrangement look perfect! Nicely built.

The only comment I have is it looks like the grates and firebox are very long. If they are much longer than 20 inches you are going to have a hard time keeping wood over the whole area and if there is an empty area, draft air will bypass the fire and cool your flues. Even if you keep it filled it is really not the most efficient setup.

If you can figure a way to shorten up the firebox and raise the arch floor under the drip flues you will be way ahead.

Grates are 30", i was trying to figure out how to end it shorter, but figured if i left a gap at the end it would be hard to close off. I guess i could cut it off shorter, and then weld flat plate from the top of the grate down to the floor of the arch.

[striker3636]

Grates are 30", i was trying to figure out how to end it shorter, but figured if i left a gap at the end it would be hard to close off. I guess i could cut it off shorter, and then weld flat plate from the top of the grate down to the floor of the arch.

Or... I could just leave it that length and weld the flat plate blocker on the underside at around 20", that way as the fire burns down i can push some of the old coals up under the front pan (8" below), but the air will be coming up through the grates in the 20" or so closest to the door?

[RileySugarbush]

At this point, a good possibility would be to cover the back 10 or 12 inches of grate with bricks. Stack them right up to within an inch of your flues, and face the side towards teh fire and the top with firebrick splits.

That would get you where you want to be, with a reasonable sized firebox, and good grate and the flue gasses going up through your drop flues.

[striker3636]

So, I have a couple more questions that I thought I would add on to this post since it already has some pics of my setup.
I tapped 100 trees on the weekend, and although a little slow right now, probably half the trees are running. I collected maybe around 8-10 gallons of sap yesterday. Looking at the weather, hovering around freezing or very slightly above for the next little while, I doubt I will be seeing any major flows for a bit, so I hope to try out the new evaporator when I get to maybe 30 or 40 gallons. This isnt an awful lot, it takes a fair amount of sap just to fill the flues, so I'm wondering how to manage the three pans after an hour or two of boiling when the level gets low and I don't have enough sap to add. Should I dump the whole works from all three down into one pan and continue that way? (I have some flat steel plates that would allow me to take off one or two of the pans and replace with a plate). If I do this, should I put it all into one of the flue pans, or the flat pan? If I do it all into one of the flue pans, I assume I need to stop when level gets down close to the top of the flues (bottom of the pan) and finish in the flat or over a propane finisher?
Also, since my last post I've welded up some mods to the evaporator and brought it up to 8" stovepipe, and added some more air intake to the door awaiting a suitable blower, I'll post some pics when I get a chance.
Thanks for any assistance, still trying to get this figured out.

[PerryW]

A new evaporator will take some getting used to. Just make sure you don't run out of sap with a raging fire going and you will be okay. Also, have some water on hand in case of emergencies.

Ditto on the previous comment about stacking bricks up under the flues to within 1 inch. You want to force the heat through the flues to make it boil properly. You could maybe make a ramp out of the bricks (just dry-stack them) to help force the fire up into the flues and cover up some of the back of the grate area. Personally, I would use 16" wood for that size evaporator. Using onger wood and a longer firebox just seems to waste wood as lots of flame goes up the stack.

I would boil until I was almost out of sap and then stop firing and leave the contents of the pan until I had more fresh sap to boil (this is called sweetening the pans). As long as the raw sap has been brought to a boil, it will kill any bacteria in the sap and it will keep for several days (longer if cold temps).

If you are itching for some fresh syrup, you could combine some pans and just run water in one (or put in the metal plate) and boil some more until you have reduced the volume to something manageable to bring inside and finish on the kitchen stove.

In general, you should never finish syrup in a flue pan, so I would keep the more dense syrup in the flat pan and eliminate one of the flat pans.


For the record, I run with about 1" of sap over the tops of the flues and run about 2" deep in a flat pan.

[maple flats]

I use 21" wood on my 3x8. Look at std evaporators, a wall and a ramp to the flues is needed for efficiency of burn. My flues are only 1/4 above the surface, forcing the heat into the flues.