FUEL OIL

[lmathews]

Has anyone heard what the price of fuel oil is expected to go to?I was thinking of going to oil but i do not think I could be competetive without an R/O or a steamaway.Still expanding and can't afford either of them for a couple of more years if I did switch.So I would be using 3-5 gallons of oil to a gallon of syrup.That would get vary costly.

[brookledge]

With the prices of oil increasing like its been the last month I guarantee the heating oil companies will not even try to set pre-paid prices until late summer and even then its a crap shoot for them.
If I had to predict I'd say around 2.50/gal
If you are considering going to oil use 3.00/gal for an estimate and then if the price is only 2.50 you will be in better shape. I bet it makes it to 3.00 in a couple of years even if it doesn't this year :( :cry:
Keith

[Fred Henderson]

A D&G dealer told me that woodfired is makeing a great come back. The profit margin goes downhill in a hurry with oil. Its a good steady heat source and all you have to do is draw syrup.

[sapman]

It seems like there's always more to do than just draw syrup off, even with oil. But Fred is right, it sure does make things allot easier!

I could never go back to wood now. I do miss the mostly free fuel, but my back doesn't miss the aching that I'd get, feeding the fire every 7 minutes. Plus, my life has only gotten busier in the last few years, so I'd be extremely hard pressed to make the necessary wood. This year I used 2.1 gal. oil/gal. syrup with a Steamaway.

Tim

[super sappy]

The glens falls post star ran an article last monday about glen goodrich using bio fuel to make syrup this year.If I remember correctly the price for the bio fuel was over $3.00 per gallon but the state steped in and covered the cost differance.He has his opperation tuned up to the point that he burned .6 gallons of fuel per gallon of syrup.I wonder if is posable to be that efficent with a small scale opperation say under 1000 taps. I wish I could burn tires to make syrup. Every spring some jerk dumps about 20 on my road.Or if I could harvest the hemp that they grow in the cornfields around here I could make fuel out of that.The Mother Earth news runs an advertisment for a rig to make your own bio-Fuel after the initial investment of @$500 the ad claims that you can make it in your garage for .75 a gallon.Maybe I just think too much-SUPER SAPPY

[sapman]

With a Steamaway you are supposed to use 2 gal. oil/1 gal. syrup, depending on size and some other variables, of course. But with an RO and Steamaway, it should be down around only .5 gal. oil, I think. I just did some quick math, and if I'd had a 500 gal./hour RO during by biggest run this year, I should have used .4 gal. oil.

Tim

[royalmaple]

Super sappy-

You'd make more money for oil if you just sold the hemp instead of burning it. 8O 8O :!:

[super sappy]

No thanks / I ll leave that job to others. I have no desire to stay in the crossbar hotel. Super sappy

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

It costs me $ 20 to $ 30 a year to cut 6 to 8 cords of wood and I enjoy it. I would love to have the convience of oil, but I would have had aproximately $ 750 in oil this past year vs $ 20 to $ 30 in wood.

[Fred Henderson]

Brandon, If you own your land and trees there is always a few that have to be taken out each year. I am older but retired and I love cutting wood. I have the time. I just finish my sugar wood for next year, all Hickory & Elm. Now I will start on my wood for heating our home with the outside wood boiler.

[sapman]

I certainly have nothing against cutting and burning wood. I, too, enjoy getting out and cutting when I have time. I heat my house almost exclusivey with wood. But my life has gotten too busy to allow time to cut for the house AND to run the evaporator. In one maple season I think I would burn as much or more wood as I would to heat the house for the year.

Tim

[brookledge]

Tim
I'm in the same boat only I burn oil in the house and wood in the sugarhouse. I use about 800 gal per year for heat and hot water and if I used oil for sugaring would need 800-1000 gal per year.
The way I look at it is if I needed $1500-2000 per year my wife would say its alot of money where as gota have heat for the house.
Keith

[markcasper]

Fuel oil for sugaring is a 100% write-off, fuel for heating house is 0% deductable on taxes.

[royalmaple]

Markcasper-

You are correct and like other expenses fuel oil used to produce maple syrup would be deductible on your taxes. (Don't forget you need to also claim your income :!: :!: ). But one thing people over look is you still have to pay for the oil out of pocket and the tax benefit is not 100%, but rather depending on the tax bracket you are in maybe only 15-25%. If you burn oil, great certainly take the deduction. Don't give the government anymore than you need to.

So $2,000 you spent to Billy's Heating Oil, will result in $500.00 in tax savings(@25% tax bracket).

Sorry, former life as a public accountant.

[nhmaple48]

With dry hdwd firewood worth $200 or more a cord, that makes the 30 or more cords we'd need worth $6000. More than enough to buy the oil without the grief and aggravation.

[markcasper]

Matt, What I meant was the following. I would be more inclined to burn oil for sugaring than oil or gas for home heating. If one wants to really make the most of the tax situation, every one should burn wood for heating house and oil for syruping. I burn wood in both places so ?

You cannot take a deduction for $$$$ spent on heating your home.

You can deduct $$$$ for buying oil for sugaring.


I have to laugh when there are those that say they cannot burn wood for whatever reason. Health problems are understandable! With that aside, it amazes me how there are some that come out with these expensive excuses for not burning wood and end up making high priced oil look attractive. Yet they'll spend who knows how much on camping, fishing, hunting, football, baseball, racing, and on and on and on. I ask these--is this affordable??? Does doing all this possibly gobble up all the spare time where you could be making some wood??

Nothing wrong with a few hobbies. $200 a cord??? Are you figuring this is what your own wood is worth after you performed the labor? This price better include stacking and no touching until need for evaporating!

Going back just a few years, oil was 50% of what its running now. In other words its basically double in price. Yet the syrup price has not doubled in price. This is going to create some situations if this upward spiral continues at the rate it has. Mark

[syrupmaker]

Brandon.... How are fuel prices doing your way? That Kabota must be great on fuel along with your fuel and oil for the saw, splitter, new chains and bars, sharpening file, fuel to get between home and the lumber pile or woods,maintenance on everything and your time. I would think it has to cost more than that to make 6-8 cords. I know it does for me!

Rick

[Parker]

nhmaple48---spend less time at the races,,on your motercycle,,or boating,,come on,,, go cut some wood :D

[super sappy]

Your time is always worth something. If you get sick and have to pay someone to do your chores. Look out. You will be amazed how much your time is worth.If something happens and you have to buy firewood for instance and you pay say 200 per cord then when you stack it and its only 3/4 ( this has happened to me every time I have purchased wood)Fuel starts to look more attractive.Now I cary the chainsaw in my work van and when I see dead wood or fallen trees on the side of the road I stop and ask if I can have it. Its ushally not alot of wood but the pile gets full pretty quick.I have already collected over 2 cords that way this year. I drove by an old greenhouse the other day and they had stacked in the weeds about 2 thousand or better hardwood tomato stakes 1x1x4 FREE SUGAR WOOD You just need to keep a look out. MARK CASPER -Season football tix for the New York Jets cost $2600.00. 10 yard line lower level.Then you drink a $8.00 beer.I told the Jets No thanks this year.I think that the maple is a better place to put my money.SUPER SAPPY

[Fred Henderson]

SS, When you say that wood is 200 bucks a cord, do you mean full cord?

[ibby458]

Sure - my time is worth something, but you gotta do something. Lots of times, If I wasn't cutting wood, I'd be sitting in the house doing nothing but going crazy. That makes wood cutting a recreational activity. People pay big bucks to join a gym, etc. I get all that exercise and fresh air for free!

Wait - Let's CHARGE townies for the privilege of cutting our wood! Hmmm. Better not let them use a chainsaw or splitter, but they could load, unload and stack it! Great abdominal exercise.

Actually, we burn 100 (face) cords in our old, uninsulated farmhouse each year. THe 12 cords that I need for boiling is just a drop in the bucket.

(That's why insulating the house is gotta get done before a new sugarhouse gets built!)

[royalmaple]

I agree that oil would be easier, but cutting wood isn't that bad. And it probably is "cheaper" to pay someone to deliver wood cut & split for $200-250 in my area, then go and cut haul and handle it. But you know **** well it will be poplar mixed in with the load and other crap, rarely are they going to give you all maple and oak for example. Plus when you get it they ran it through a processor and had either a two way or a four way splitter, so you still may have to resplit for your evaporator. Not to mention the paying for 5 cords getting 4 1/2 cords by the time you stack it.

I don't mind burning poplar but different if I am paying for it.

I am sure it costs me more when I cut the wood and handle it 15 times, but I don't mind. Last weekend my brother and I cut 12 cords of firewood and 1 load of logs. That was all standing oaks and with hand saws and my tractor to twitch the logs out. Slow going but yeah may have been easier to pay for the wood but I was helping a buddy out and cleared his house lot. "for the wood" Not a good idea but I got pleanty now. I certainly could have made more money working and not killing myself.

Plus on my land I was going to cut pecker poles this year and burn them, so I'll have pleanty of wood for sure. I hate giving sadam anymore money than I have to. House is on oil so I have to bend over for that, but my barn and evaporator are wood heat so I "save" there. If I had to do it over again I'd put a combination boiler in my house and burn pallets if I had to to save on oil.

If I was older and couldn't or didn't want to frig with wood, then it would be a different story. Hey there may be others that don't have land to get the wood from. If that is the case and you are buying wood or buying oil, then may be just as easy to buy oil and flip the switch.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Rick,

Kubota is very good on diesel and with fuel for it, $ 15 for chain saw to have three chains sharpened($ 5.00 @), $ 10 for gas and oi for chain saw and $ 10 max for diesel, so $ 35 tops. Of course, this doesn't count wear and tear and depreciation which is common sense. It amuses me how everyone shouts tax write off. I have an accounting degree and do all of my accounting and taxes and the tax write off is a joke. You can figure 10 to 25% of what you will actually get back of what you show as a tax write off. I would prefer to get good exercise, clean up the woods and use the natural resources God provides basically for free and not support the scum of the earth overseas any more than I have to.

Besides, most of us could use the exercise anyway. :D 8O

[super sappy]

Fred - Yes $200 a full cord delivered. I have even heard of 250 in the suburbs of Albany and Saratoga. I do not have much wood on my land to cut. The woods are young so I scrounge. A wile ago I paid for a load for my house 180 per cord.4 minimum.When I stacked it It was about 2 wheelbarro loads over 3 cord. The logger told me to pound salt when I called him. I did not have a written reciept only a handshake so no point taking him to small claims court.Lessons learned the hard way- :evil:

[Russell Lampron]

In NH the law states that fire wood has to measure 128 cubic feet for a full cord cut and stacked stove length. That 4x4x8 foot pile may measure a full cord before being cut to 16" but won't measure up when cut and stacked. The prices around here were in the $200 range last winter and will probably be higher this winter.

Russ

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If you will drive around, you can usually find someone that will let you clean up their woods or a new house being built and clear off some of the trees for free. :)

[markcasper]

Brandon- I have probably been chanting tax write-off more than anyone else. BUT, if you add it up, year after year, it certainly gets sizable. That is only one cog in the wheel, or maybe you could call it a benefit of burning wood.

Some days even I wish I had oil, but not that often and even more so as oil keeps rising.

If your burning oil and wanting to expand, one must make the decision I believe whether to add more taps, or cut the # of tap increases and focus on putting up wood. Lets face it, syrup is not going to increase on the same level as oil, so might as well burn wood.

I am fortuante to get HEAVY oak pallets from where I work. I usually bring home 30-45 a week and I went through about 400 of them this year in the evaporator. 8-10000 lb. aluminum coils come on them and are free for the taking. They weigh anywhere between 100-140 lbs. each, they don't have that many nails in.

Best of all, I am not burning up my time to get them to the farm.

I do cut some of my own wood from the woods to mix with these, about 50-50 I'd say.

To those of you who say you can't find or don't have access to wood. If you go to almost any farmer around, 95% of them have LOTS of worthless wood growing in their fencelines. Boxelder, elm and a host of other brush. I would be willing that most of them would let you whack it off for the taking. We have several miles of fenclines that are overgrown and I just pray that someone would come and cut it down, take the wood and have the brush laid out so that it could be burned. But there are never any takers. Times must not be hard enough YET.......

I would like to cut the whole works and have cords and cords of sugarwood stacked up, but theres just no time. Mark