12v potable pump?

[David in MI]

I'm looking for a way to make a portion of our sap collecting a bit easier this season. We started tapping in 2011 with 200 taps, all on bags, and simply emptied the bags into 5-gallon buckets. When the back of our gator was full of buckets we dumped them into a 210 gallon tank on a trailer which was then used to haul the sap to the shack (we have someone boiling for us at this point). Last year we expanded and had around 285 on gravity tubing and probably another 150 on bags. Since I'm handling the collecting duties from our gravity dump stations and my wife & girls are doing the rest, I would like to make their job a little easier and more efficient this year. Here's my plan:

Put a couple of 55-gallon tanks in the back of the gator (older style gator, 6x4) with a small dump station that we can empty the 5-gallon buckets into and are pumped into the tanks in the gator with a 12v pump. I'm running into difficulty finding a potable pump that will cycle the water fast enough and am looking for your input here. I've used the search function and see a lot of references to sump pumps, etc but I'm not comfortable using something like this.

[whalems]

I have seen several producers use these. http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/ru12vodcnobi.html

[325abn]

Bilge pump from wally world has worked well for years.

[David in MI]

Thanks for the recommendations.

[Four D Acre Farms]

Hey dave i have serveral road side trees and haul a 275 gal tank in the back of the truck most of these are buckets, collect into 5 gal buckets and then empty them into a 30 gal plastic tote in the back of the truck i have a bilge pump in the tote that pumps the sap into the 275 gal tote, works great with one exception and that is the pump is to small and freezes up around the screened inlet in colder weather. i would still recommend a new bilge pump to do the job but use one larger than you think you will need and make sure the dump tank is shallow enough to be able to clear any ice build up from the inlet side of the pump if required. I got the idea from a buddy using a new 30 gal garbage can as a dump tank. Remeber you are dealing with food items any plastic containers should be new.

[bowtie]

i understand your problem, i have to empty my buckets into 2- 5 gallons(food grade) buckets then carry them to my ranger and a 210 gallon tank and dump them, then haul off hill and transport home, and then pump up into my 500 gallon ss tank and it takes forever with portable pump, sometime over 1-1/2 hrs. get the biggest pump you can afford and don't rely on the gpm it says it is generally way high(rated under ideal conditions). i am looking into buying another pump and running 2 to get the job done faster. would rather boil than transfer!!

[David in MI]

My biggest obstacle is finding a pump that is potable, or food grade. I've read posts where others are using sump pumps and find this practice...... unhealthy. I see many others who use bilge pumps and I guess I need to research that a bit more but am quite wary of getting any sort of contaminates into the sap. I welcome your thoughts on this topic.

Yesterday I looked into RV water pumps as they fit my 12v and food grade parameters but the volume just isn't there.

[mike z]

I would bet anything that would be 12 v., high vol. and labeled food grade will be v. expensive. Everybody raise thier hand if they use one. This is a good question.

[sg5054]

take a look at the jabsco line of par max water pressure system pumps. I'm looking in a marine supply catalog and see flow rates of up to 5 gpm for a potable water system pump (non submersible) These are 12v diaphragm pumps.

If you don't want to use the trailer plug and need to make a wiring harness to run straight from the battery try this. Take your pos and neg wires and clamp one end of the pair in a vise. Take the other ends and chuck them in a drill. Step back until stretched out and pull the trigger. Keep tension on the wires until they are twisted as tight as you wish. Be sure to add a few extra feet to account for the twist. Voila! Instant harness that is neat and tidy, easy to thread and secure.

[Maple Ridge]

I have the same issue with collection. This year I purchased a 12 V Wayns transfer pump and put together a ATV trailer with a 125 gal tank on it so I can pull up to my collection tanks and pump to my transfer tank in the trailer. I will switch the lines around and pump it to my holding tanks at the sugar house. The pump was around $80. This is my first year with it so I cant say how it works. The pump head is stainless steel. the pump comes with a rebuild kit. I use the same kind of pump last year but the AC model to pump from my holding tanks to my head tank that feeds my evaperator and it worked great.

[David in MI]

sg5045 - thanks for the heads up. I think if 5gpm is the "advertised" rate it would be under the best possible conditions without any head which leads me to believe it would be too slow for my use. It's not uncommon for us to bring 10-20 gallons back at one time.

[David in MI]

I have seen several producers use these. http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/ru12vodcnobi.html

I looked into those pumps and actually contacted their tech dept today. Based upon that conversation I am of the opinion that there is a strong possibility of grease and oil that will contaminate the sap. Because of that, and like they say on Shark Tank, "I'm out."

[David in MI]

Hey dave i have serveral road side trees and haul a 275 gal tank in the back of the truck most of these are buckets, collect into 5 gal buckets and then empty them into a 30 gal plastic tote in the back of the truck i have a bilge pump in the tote that pumps the sap into the 275 gal tote, works great with one exception and that is the pump is to small and freezes up around the screened inlet in colder weather. i would still recommend a new bilge pump to do the job but use one larger than you think you will need and make sure the dump tank is shallow enough to be able to clear any ice build up from the inlet side of the pump if required. I got the idea from a buddy using a new 30 gal garbage can as a dump tank. Remeber you are dealing with food items any plastic containers should be new.

I understand the reason many are using bilge pumps; they're cheap, work very well and run off 12v. However, due to the risk of contamination I won't use one in my operation. Trash cans are often made of recycled plastic and therefore not likely to be food grade, either. I have purchased a number of the 275 gallon caged tanks that were used to transport frutolose to a bakery in Michigan. We use them for our collection points in our gravity tubing system.

[David in MI]

I'm beginning to think I won't find what I am looking for, at least not at a price that I would like to pay anyway. I was pointed to one of these today, which certainly fits the bill, but it's only the pump head and doesn't include the motor. Estimated price for the pump was in the $1200 range and the motor, another $1000. I guess I'm back to telling my wife how nice all this lifting will make her shoulders look! :cool:

http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/food-and-beverage-processing/flexible-impeller-pumps/30550-0xxx-30550-1xxx-30550-pedestal-pump.htm

[sg5054]

Dave ,
Have you tried contacting March pumps
MARCH MANUFACTURING, INC.
1819 Pickwick Avenue
Glenview, Illinois 60026-1306
P 847.729.5300
F 847.729.7062
WWW.MARCHPUMP.COM

[sg5054]

I looked into those pumps and actually contacted their tech dept today. Based upon that conversation I am of the opinion that there is a strong possibility of grease and oil that will contaminate the sap. Because of that, and like they say on Shark Tank, "I'm out."

That's odd because they have been used for marine drinking water systems forever. They stay in continuous contact with the water supply.

[motowbrowne]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_150883_150883
I've been looking at one of these, still need a motor, but it's less than the xylem pumps and is rated for potable use.

We use one of these, it's a two stroke mitsubishi which is very resonably priced. It doesn't say on the website, but when we bought it, the pump specifically stated that it is for potable water use. We've had it for about three years, starts every time works great, very fast compared to a dc pump.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200310532_200310532

Otherwise, what about a well pump, seems like there ought to be a potable well pump to be had pretty cheap.

[adk1]

I have the same issue with collection. This year I purchased a 12 V Wayns transfer pump and put together a ATV trailer with a 125 gal tank on it so I can pull up to my collection tanks and pump to my transfer tank in the trailer. I will switch the lines around and pump it to my holding tanks at the sugar house. The pump was around $80. This is my first year with it so I cant say how it works. The pump head is stainless steel. the pump comes with a rebuild kit. I use the same kind of pump last year but the AC model to pump from my holding tanks to my head tank that feeds my evaperator and it worked great.
This is exactly the one that I am looking at for the very same application. but Ionly have a 35gallon polyethlene tank and not a 125 gallon one!

[West Mountain Maple]

[QUOTE=motowbrowne;199271]http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_150883_150883
I've been looking at one of these, still need a motor, but it's less than the xylem pumps and is rated for potable use.

We use one of these, it's a two stroke mitsubishi which is very resonably priced. It doesn't say on the website, but when we bought it, the pump specifically stated that it is for potable water use. We've had it for about three years, starts every time works great, very fast compared to a dc pump.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200310532_200310532


that first one just says freshwater, that means no chunks, trash, sewage. not potable water. Plus its cast iron, wouldnt that rust up?

[West Mountain Maple]

Have you seen this place - http://www.waterpumpsdirect.com/Earthquake-WP4310-Water-Pump/p3175.html
free shipping too, similar to that mistsubishi,

[David in MI]

Thanks for the links. I'll check those out today.

[David in MI]

I wanted to update this thread for anyone else who was in a situation similar to mine. I did find a pump that will work, although it is a bit slower than I was looking for. Link: http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html It was approximately $70 before shipping, is food grade and came with a 110v AC ($5 option).

This pump will fit in the palm of my hand and cycles water at around 4gpm so it isn't a race horse but should work very well in our system. I have it rigged up with a shallow electrical box and a light switch using a 12v marine battery as a power source. I ran it a bit over the weekend to flush out some of our gravity lines and it worked very well. It draws about 1.2 amps which tempts me to use a much smaller battery like the ones I have powering my trail cameras. Note that it is not self-priming. You can purchase it with stainless or brass fittings, 1/2" NPT on both sides of the pump.

[Zamkev]

David,

Thanks for posting this. I am looking for an inexpensive, off-grid pump to handle a very similar load. The beer pump is something I will look into. Did it ship from Canada? I see that Canadian $ are listed.

When you mention the possibility of using a "smaller battery" - what did you have in mind? Have you tried that yet?

Thx.

[David in MI]

Zamkev,

Yes, it did ship from Canada. Shipping was a tad higher than I expected, about $18 if memory serves.

I have a few battery packs made by Wildgame innovations (Link: http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Wildgame-Innovations-External-Battery-Pack-6V&i=430669&r=view&aID=503AC3D&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=343330363639&s_kwcid=goobase_goobase_filler&cID=GSHOP_430669 ) that I use for my trail cams. I have extra batteries for these and if run a couple of them together I will have 12 volts at a much lighter weight and smaller package than my marine battery. I haven't tried it out yet but will update the thread if I do.


David,

Thanks for posting this. I am looking for an inexpensive, off-grid pump to handle a very similar load. The beer pump is something I will look into. Did it ship from Canada? I see that Canadian $ are listed.

When you mention the possibility of using a "smaller battery" - what did you have in mind? Have you tried that yet?

Thx.

[Zamkev]

Thanks Dave. Very useful info.

[not_for_sale]

Same pump is available from amazon.

It's a Topsflow TS5 15 PV. It's available with stainless or brass or plastic fittings. I have a couple of those pumps recirculating my hot water in the house.

[David in MI]

Good catch, that does look like the identical pump (although a hair cheaper on the beer site). How do you use it in your recirc. system?


Same pump is available from amazon.

It's a Topsflow TS5 15 PV. It's available with stainless or brass or plastic fittings. I have a couple of those pumps recirculating my hot water in the house.

[not_for_sale]

I have an outdoor wood boiler and a tankless gas water heater. I did not want to put a tank in just to use it to make hot water in winter. Grundfos and taco pumps that are capable of running with fresh water cost $200 plus. So I circulate my hot water lines through a heat exchanger with these pumps and a grundfos thermal switch in winter time. Keeps my water in the lines at 104 for free and the house is heated by the hot water lines.

The pump uses 3.4 watts at 9 V and 15 watts at 12 V. Huge drop in water cost ( city water) and electricity because the furnace fan now only runs half the time. It's a huge difference. Sometimes I kick the furnace fan on just to make sure it still works. Instant hot water at every faucet too.

[NhShaun]

I wanted to update this thread for anyone else who was in a situation similar to mine. I did find a pump that will work, although it is a bit slower than I was looking for. Link: http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html It was approximately $70 before shipping, is food grade and came with a 110v AC ($5 option).

This pump will fit in the palm of my hand and cycles water at around 4gpm so it isn't a race horse but should work very well in our system. I have it rigged up with a shallow electrical box and a light switch using a 12v marine battery as a power source. I ran it a bit over the weekend to flush out some of our gravity lines and it worked very well. It draws about 1.2 amps which tempts me to use a much smaller battery like the ones I have powering my trail cameras. Note that it is not self-priming. You can purchase it with stainless or brass fittings, 1/2" NPT on both sides of the pump.

Just wondering how the pump is holding up for you after a few years. I'm having the same problem you had... would love to hear if you are still using it or have upgraded since this post.

[Sugarmaker]

We use the RULE brand marine pumps at 3000 gph and 2000 gph to lift sap from containers to truck tank. These are rugged dependable pumps that get the job done quickly. Most of the components are plastic and or stainless steel.
Regards,
Chris

[SeanD]

We use the RULE brand marine pumps at 3000 gph and 2000 gph to lift sap from containers to truck tank. These are rugged dependable pumps that get the job done quickly. Most of the components are plastic and or stainless steel.
Regards,
Chris

Chris, are those bilge pumps that have to be put in the container or are they transfer pumps between the container and truck?

[Sugarmaker]

Woodville,
We have the 3000 RULE pump mounted in the bottom of a plastic 55 gallon drum on the back of the truck and any sap dumped or pumped into that is automatically pumped up to the 325 gallon tank on the truck. The 2000 RULE is on a hose and is used to pump from road side collection tanks to the drum also. Hope that helps.
Regards,
Chris

[SeanD]

Thanks. So the 2000 gets dropped into the collection tank and then it pumps up to the truck tank, right? Does it have a long power cord back to the truck?

Sean

[David in MI]

I haven't been around in a bit but wanted to check in with an answer to your question. Unfortunately, I never used the pump in our operation. We have a JD Gator 6x4 and use it for collecting our bags. My plan was to place two 55 gallon tanks horizontally in the back of the gator along with a 30 gallon tank on the back of the gator but much closer to ground level so that my daughters (and other young helpers) can dump their buckets/bags into the 30 gallon tank which would then pump into the twin 55s. I would up simply cutting holes into the tops of the 55g tanks and placing a 5-gallon bucket with a screw-top lid into each tank. This worked so well that we didn't need the 30 on the back. The girls bring the buckets over and either I or my wife dumps them into the tanks.

One note: I was quite keen on using the Rule bilge pumps in our operation and contacted the company to discuss my plans as I was concerned about not using a food-grade pump. They STRONGLY advised me against it and stated that there is a chance that oil and/or grease could leak into the sap. I know many here use them and are pleased with the results but in my operation I am simply not comfortable with this risk.