NEW EVAPORATOR

[the old guy]

I AM PLANNING TO PURCHASE A NEW EVAPORATOR FOR NEXT SEASON. :D I HAVE ABOUT 120 - 175 TAPS AND WOULD LIKE TO MAKE ABOUT 30 - 50 GALLONS OF SYRUP PER. MY QUESTION IS WITH SO MANY STYLES AND BRANDS OUT THERE, WHICH SHOULD I BUY? MY PARTNER AND I ARE LOOKING 2 X 6 OR COMPRABLE? WHAT DO YOU THINK? I NOTICE THE MAPLE GUYS ARE OFFERING EARLY SEASON DISCOUNTS NOW ON LAPIERRE MODELS.

THE OLD GUY

[Fred Henderson]

A 2x6 should work fine for that many taps. This maple businees if a fever and if you even have the remoteness thoughts of doing more taps you might want to go bigger that a 2x6. Lapierre should do the job but I have heard pro's and con's in here about the Waterloo/Small pans that they are now selling.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The 2x6 they are selling is the old Algierre evaporator that some of the guys on her have and love it I believe. The price is tremendous and pay a little extra and get a stainless arch and stack and it will last you for many, many years and you won't regret the extra money! :D

Mapleman3 has one and he gets 35 to 40 gph with oil! :D

[Russell Lampron]

Old Guy,

A 2x6 would be a good size evaporator for you. A 2x6 can handle up to 300 taps without a problem. I would recommend a raised flue evaporator, they are easier to operate.

Russ

[Fred Henderson]

Why is a raised flue easier to operate?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

It's not, a drop flue would be technically easier. Both have their benefits and drawbacks. :?

[hard maple]

that's a real good question.

[Flatfoot95]

Fred what kinds of problems with the pans. I am looking at a 30"x8' Storm from Lapierre. Anything I should know?

[Fred Henderson]

Hey Flat, There was someone in here that said when he got his the float ladder did not have the holes drilled in it. Also he had a few other problems but I don't remember what they were.

[SteveD]

Is there a web site where anyone could actually see one of the Lapierre/Algiers 2x6 evaporator/archs that the Maple Guys are selling? :?

Steve

[brookledge]

Steve I'd e-mail the maple guys
Keith

[the old guy]

STEVE

SCROLL TO THE TOP OF THIS FORUM AND CLICK ON MAPLEGUYS.COM -- EVAPORATORS AND YOU CAN VIEW THE 24" X 6' HOBBY MODEL FOR AROUND $2800 OR SO. NICE LOOKING MACHINE.

THE OLD GUY

[Russell Lampron]

If you are using wood as a heat source on a drop flue evaporator as the tempurature drops between firings some of the sweet from the front pan can work it's way back into the flue pan. This is not possible on a raised flue because the flow of sap to the front pan is controled by a float. On a raised flue you don't have to worry about banging up your flues by hitting them with wood when you are firing. Also raised flue pans can be completly drained when it is clean up time. Some but not all drop flue pans have a drain thru the side of the evaporator. On the others you would need to remove the pan or add the drain pipe which is kind of pricey.

Russ

[Fred Henderson]

Russell, I am about to take the plunge and buy a new drop flue 3x8 but you now have put doubt in my mind as to weather it should be a drop flue.
Then again a 3 foot should take 3 ft wood and I will only be using 18 " wood. I will stay with a DF.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Russell,

Not to be critical, but I think you are too hard on a drop flue. If any sugar runs back on fire, it is minimal at best and as soon as you shut the doors, it would be pushed back within a minute or less. I have never seen any run back on mine. If a company sells a 3x8 evaporator without a drain in the side, they won't be in business for long I would guess. I can completely drain my drop flue and I don't know, but is it possible to COMPLETELY drain a raised flue??

[Russell Lampron]

Brandon,

I'm not trying to be critical of drop flue evaporators, just stating some basic facts to consider when choosing one over the other. Yes it is possible to completely drain the flue pan on a raised flue.

Russ

[Fred Henderson]

Ever wonder how they split 4& 5 foot wood years ago for the big 4x16 and 5x16 evaporators? Well they didn't, they used 16 in wood, load the front near the doors and when firing again they would push enough wood forward leaveing a bed of coals and load on top of that coal bed. It worked for them and it has worked for me.

[SteveD]

When you are fire bricking up the rear wall of the fire box on a drop flue arch...I have heard that you make it high enough so that it is approximately say..1 to 2 inches below the bottom of the drop flues. How high do you take the back wall of the firebox with a raised flue evaporator?

Steve

[maplehound]

On raised flue evaporators, you do the same, just alot more to fill up. I don't know why they don't make a diffrent arch for raised flues. I was told when I did mine that I should fill the arch clear full of sand and brick with the top layer of fire brick. On bigger models they add a "V" half way back under the flue pan. that adds turbulence for a greater boil. Then at the very back before the stack you need to slope it back down so the gasses can exit through the stack.
Ron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

One most drop flue 2x6 and larger, if you put full size fire bricks underneath the flues, there will be 1" or less of firespace under the flues. You could run raised flue pans on a drop flue arch if you built up a wall at the rear of the firebox, but you couldn't run drop flue pans on a raised flue arch.

[maplehound]

Brandon,
On all the raised flue arches I have seen, they are the same as the drop flue. YOu just fill the space under the flue pan with brick and sand.
Ron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Ron,

What I meant is that there is not enough room in a raised for arch for 7" drop flues. :?

[brookledge]

Brandon,
Yes raised flues have drain on the side of the flue pan just the same as a drop flue. Only the drop flue drain comes out the side of the arch vs on top of the arch
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Keith,

I knew they did, what I was questioning is can you drain them completely dry without lifting one side as I would think some sap would lay in the floor. :?

[lmathews]

I read that people are using sand.Iwould never use sand as it always draws moisture.I use vermiculite and it does not draw moisture that can rust anything.It also is alot less weight in the arch.

[MASSEY JACK]

My raised flue Small Bros has a built in ramp that you brick up. You could not install a drop flue unless you drilled out the rivets and removed the ramp and angle iron across the top. I put 1 inch arch board everywhere and then fire brick. I filled the back section behind the ramp with arch board,then fire brick(because I had it)then regular brick as fillers, then I dumped in a bag of speedy dry. I did not want the weight of sand as I mounted my arch on a steel skid so I can move it with a forklift. When I took the pans off last weekend the speedy dry looked just like it did the day I put it in. It did the job and I don't think it will cause any moisture problems. It is a coarse speedy dry so it will likely "breathe" and dry out if it gets any moisture. As far as draining the pan it gets really close but will not drain completely because the outlet bung is soldered into the side of the pan so maybe a 1/4" might stay in the pan. Not a problem for me as I am removing it to finish cleaning it anyway.

[maplehound]

Ok, My arch does have a ramp built in that you would have to take out to put on a drop flue. But without it in there you could easily put on a 7" drop flue pan and still have room for bricking. What I don't understand is Why? Why do the build these arches this way? Can't they build a arch for razised flues that doesn't need the whole thing filled up? I would like to put something else in my arch other than sand. What is this Speed Dry? I have never heard of it. Also when I bricked my arch I didn't cement the bricks in. This alows me to remove them for easier moving of the arch. Now I do leave it where it sets, but my arch is sitting on a metal frame that has reievers on both sides and the front for putting on Wheels and a tung. Yes it alll converts int a trailer. Then we jsut tow it out. Whenn it is full of the bricks and sand though it is too heavy to move.
Ron

[royalmaple]

Ron-

Speedy dry is the stuff you throw down on oil spills or antifreeze, say in your garage for example. Like kitty litter consistency.

[maplehound]

Thanks Matt,
I amy try using that. I expect you can get it at Napa or some other Auto supply place.
Ron

[royalmaple]

Yeah, napa should have it. I have seen it in bags and also in drums with a resealable lid, has like a metal binder around it that you can snap shut.

[mountainvan]

Ron, I would suggest you put ceramic blanket on the deck of your evaporator under the flue pan. It's very light, insulates better than anything else on the market, and reflects heat back up into your flue pan giving you a stronger boil. The only downside to using it is up front cost. I've used this on all my evaporators that I've boiled on and recommend it to all maplers. The intensofire/hurricane comes with it for under the flue pan.

[SteveD]

As far as I know...Speedy Dry and cat litter are exactly the same thing..They are a moisture absorbing type of clay. The trick is to stay away from the "clumping" kitty litters.

Steve

[brookledge]

If you use speedy dry or sand make sure that you never leave your stack open to let rain in. They will both absorb the moisture. I have seen arches that rust out because of the moisture held in by sand. I have used sand in the past and now would never use anything but vermiculite. It is not that expensive and is readily available.
Keith

[Banjo]

Van,
do you need anything on top of the ceramic insulation (e.g. tin, SS, firebricks, ??)? Do you do the sides of the arch too?

From what I've read about it on here so far it seems to me like it should be the standard for arches? With the large number of firebricks that seem to be used, I can't believe it turns out that much more expensive, and it doesn't have to make much of an improvment before you'd get your money back anyway ... it seems to me anyhow???

Am I missing something?

cheers, Andrew

PS. Is another advantage of vermiculite is that it's a good (compared to sand anyway) insulator too.

[maplehound]

I do have a ceramic blanket in my arch. I also use a sheet of corigated metal under the blanket, That gives a air space to keep your arch sides cool. After 4 years of use we have only one small spot that has been discolored. Our first year we lost a small brick and exposed the blanket and corigated metal to the fire. This alowed one small spot to turn blue. Once that was fixed we had no more trouble and now when we run full steam, Our arch sided are just warm to the touch. All the heat stays inside where it is most needed.
Ron

[Fred Henderson]

If I am sitting up a brand new arch as I understand it this is what I should do. Line the entire inside if the arch with cermaic blanket (how thick), lay blanket under the flue pan and omitt the bricks there. On the sides and back is it ok for the fire brick to compress the blanket.

[forester1]

You could use firebrick in the back too if you want.

[mountainvan]

andrew, I don't have anything on top of the ceramic. sides of arch are fire bricked.

[Highlandwelder]

Van/Hound

Any chance we could get some photo's of your insulation installs?

Thanks!

Mike

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

well I have a 2x6 and modified pretty dam hickish:D and I do all I could on 240gal sap which would equate to 240taps? 300 taps if your retired or have a lot of time on your hands would be good, but if you have a job you have to be at every morning you gonna think twice the first time you do a 10hr boil. If your thinking about 300 I would think about a 2 1/2 x 8. Just my 1.5cent Obama took the other.5 for socialized health care.