Generator

[Amber Gold]

With how much we lose power these days, I'm giving more serious thought to getting a generator to power the sugerhouse so I can make syrup. The vacuum pump is at the woods, so I don't need to power that, and the property owner has a generator I can likely tie into. At the sugarhouse I have 250gph RO, compressor, arch blower, and if I need to some lights. I think the RO's rated at 26 amps, but I don't know if it's startup amps, or running amps. In the near future, I may be upgrading to a 600 gph RO which I think is rated for 44 amps.

So, how big of a generator would I need, and how much am I going to spend? I'm wondering if this is going to be cost effective.

Thanks.

[wiam]

Most likely those are running amps. And what sucks about RO is you are starting smaller motor first. At least on mine. This does not help when you are limited on power. If you can shut off every thing else and then start feed and have enough reserve to start high pressure you probably would have enough to start blower.

[syrup junkie]

Hi,

I'm not an electrician, but if you take the rated amps + 20% for start-up. should give you your overall needs.

Example 100 amps combined load + 20% for startup = 120 amps

You shouldn't run a generator for long periods of time at more then 80% capacity, so for 120 amps @80% would be a 150 amp generator

[maplecrest]

josh my generator is a 30k. is 125 amps. at the current time i am able to run the whole sugar house. 5 hp vac pump 15amps, 2400 r/o evap filter press lights ect. need to start motors 1 at a time. the big draw i had but no longer have was the blower to the steamaway. that sucked some juice. if you are going to do it. grt the amps off all motors. and ask generator manufacturer what the surge watts are. mine is 136 amps. do the math. a 20kw would work. got mine from norwall generators. they are very helpful and will work with you to size your unit. propane generates more amps per hp than diesel. and iseasy on fuel. also get the automatic transfer switch to be standing in the dark boiling and power goes out. to wait a minute or so and hear generator start and have the lights come on is great.to be boiling with out missing a beat.

[farmall h]

SyrupJunkie, come on...stop lurking and pound in some spouts!!!:lol:

[Tweegs]

Size one big enough to handle the RO upgrade.

Watts = Amps x Volts.

So if you need 44 amps for the RO, you also need some squeaker room to run other devices, call it 60 amps or 7200 watts as an absolute minimum.

Here is an 8,000W (66 amp) from Sears:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07133187000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kispla=07133187000P&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=30-103971334-2

If it were me, I’d shoot for something even a little bigger, 9,000W perhaps.

[sjdoyon]

Josh,

I went with a 30,000kw John Deere, based on the fact I didn't want to have any problems and I don't have a secondary option. Runs very nice. The website lists the specs you need for load. I currently use about 75 amps for the sugarhouse but adding another post to the RO this spring so I have the capacity.

http://www.generatorsales.com/order/JD1PH30.asp?page=JD1PH30

[Amber Gold]

Thanks for the info. If I buy a generator, I'll be sizing it for the larger RO. The blower on the evap. only uses a couple of amps. I figure the RO and compressor are the only two big draws. I remembered the formula for calc'ing wattage...amps x volt = watts. The 600 RO alone will need almost 10k watts.

For these gen.'s with the premade panel with various plugs, can they be rewired so all the juice goes into the breaker panel via a single cable?

I like the idea of a propane gen, then I can tap it into my home's propane tank. I was also thinking about a PTO gen., so there isn't another motor to maintain, but I think it'd use a lot more fuel to run. For temporary use, maybe not a big deal. Northern Tool has a 100 amp PTO gen. for $1500. It looks like a portable gen. will be in the $2500 range, and a standby in the $4k range.

The other benefit is the SH's electric supply is currently through my house service, when the gen's not powering the SH, it can power the house.

[rrolleston]

Size one big enough to handle the RO upgrade.

Watts = Amps x Volts.

So if you need 44 amps for the RO, you also need some squeaker room to run other devices, call it 60 amps or 7200 watts as an absolute minimum.

Here is an 8,000W (66 amp) from Sears:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07133187000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kispla=07133187000P&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=30-103971334-2

If it were me, I’d shoot for something even a little bigger, 9,000W perhaps.

Sorry but 8000/240 = 33 amps. Unless you only use 120v for everything including the RO.

And I hope that everyone is installing the proper transfer switches and or interlocks to prevent backfeed of the utility power.

[pjsweet]

I am a master electrician and have wired many sugarhouses here in Vermont, some with utility power and some without and only on generators. My rule of thumb is 100amp service you need a 20kw generator and 200amp is a 40kw. with that said you can size your generator for other loads in between these guild lines. Always plan for the future as your opperation may expand,You may also want to consider what you need to run in an outage situation and size it for that and leave loads that are not critical off.

John

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

[QUOTE=pjsweet;204490]I am a master electrician and have wired many sugarhouses here in Vermont, some with utility power and some without and only on generators. My rule of thumb is 100amp service you need a 20kw generator and 200amp is a 40kw. with that said you can size your generator for other loads in between these guild lines. Always plan for the future as your opperation may expand,You may also want to consider what you need to run in an outage situation and size it for that and leave loads that are not critical off.

John[/QUOT
I believe you would need a 50kw for a 200A service, 50kw/240=208.3333A, but I have been wrong before.
The transfer switch if hooking into an existing service shall be rated at the service entrance size. My experiance hooking into a commercial building in VT I was made to put a disconnect switch on the service entrance before the transfer switch and a disconnect on the generator side before the transfer switch by who used to be CVPS.

[pjsweet]

I am basing this on the fact that most sugarmakers do not require the total 200 amp load, so with that said a 40KW generator will more than adequately supply the loads that a sugarhouse would need. If the loads approach the 200 amp benchmark then clearly one would size the generator larger however this is not the case and I was just giving an idea on how to size your equipment for further expansion.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I am basing this on the fact that most sugarmakers do not require the total 200 amp load, so with that said a 40KW generator will more than adequately supply the loads that a sugarhouse would need. If the loads approach the 200 amp benchmark then clearly one would size the generator larger however this is not the case and I was just giving an idea on how to size your equipment for further expansion.
just my 2cents buddy like I said in the other post I over build my stuff, never had a customer call me back to tell me breakers tripping, not enough power etc. not saying your wrong at all.

[maple flats]

I ran for 4 years on a 6000 watt diesel generator. I could only run my 360 watts florescent lighting, the HP blower and the filter press the same time, but it sure dimmed the lights as I turned on the filter press. My RO was gas powered. I'm not sure how much reserve I had. I also had a solar set up with an inverter on a 240 AH battery bank which helped especially on the surge loads.

[Amber Gold]

Still planning on getting a generator...likely for the 2015 season but making some upgrades now...upgrading the house service and installing a transfer switch now. For as little as it'll get used, my preference is for a PTO powered generator...one less motor to maintain, and it's cheaper for the size generator I'd need to power the sugarhouse...say 13kW like this (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_36914_36914). One thing I wanted to check to see if it's possible is re-wiring the generator. Most generator's come with say a 50 amp plug and a few 20 amp plugs. I need a 100 amp feed to power the sugar house. Can generators be re-wired to a single 100 amp outlet? If possible, a secondary 30 amp plug would be nice too. The 100 amp outlet would be hard wired to the transfer switch.

Thanks

[BAP]

Amber Gold, have you talked to the people at "The Generator Connection" there in Barrington? Their website says they are a Winco PTO generator dealer. Winco/Winpower have been making PTO generators used on farms for decades. We have used one for 40-50 years. They also can answer your question about hookup. Most big generators use a 4prong square shaped plug in the generator and you use a heavy duty cord coming out of a big transfer switch placed on the incoming line next to the meter. For reliability and service, I would go with a name brand that has been in business for a longer period of time. Some of the cheaper sort of no name brands don't always provide good quality power of proper voltage and frequency. If they can't help, these people can. They have sold a lot of pto generators and have parts for them. I have bought from them before.
http://www.huestisfarmsupply.com/2013/welcome/
The other thing is, what size tractor do you have to run a pto generator. Rule of thumb is about 2hp per a Kilowatt. You can have less if you aren't using all the capacity of the generator.

[BreezyHill]

I would suggest looking on ebay & Clist for a generator. I picked up a dual fuel...gas/lp 45 kw for $376 and a 100kw Cummings diesel for $750. The gas only had 300 hrs on it and the diesel was 1100 hrs. The diesel was a military surplus and has its own fuel cell and skid plate. Never dropped out of a c130. Just a base standby and used to make snow for a ski slope one year.

You can usually find the larger gens at cheaper prices as they are more common on farms.

[BreezyHill]

http://www.wantaddigest.com/forsale/wantad.asp?onlineid=ALHMS00&adid=A00027&classifieds=Generators&eclass2=Equipment%20and%20Materials

Try this 15 kw unit for under $1800.