getting sap across my creek ???

[TerryEspo]

Does anyone else have a problem like me ?

I have many maples I could tap but they are across the creek and when the sap is running, the creek is RUSHING !! I wish I could have taps that could go to a mainline and have that mainline cross the creek instead of me, lol.
I can cross it, but its a pain everyday crossing, no bridge. Some days the current is strong enough to carry my ATV.

I think the easiest would be to just collect in barrels and then every two days or so, go across and transfer it with poly pipe to a barrel to the good side of the creek. Maybe a 12 volt pump, maybe just gravity and a large funnel ??

I am open to suggestions as to how to get the sap across the darn creek. The best would be if I never had to cross unless I wanted to. If it helps, there is a gentle slope towards to creek so gravity is helping me. The area I want to tap across the creek is maybe 200 ft. x 300 ft., not too big but some nice trees available.

Also, I would buy some mainline, couplers etc. if it is needed.

Suggestions welcome.

Thanks.

Terry

[adk1]

Well that is the way to go. Run a mainline with mainline wire..just watch the grade and send it

[TerryEspo]

I hate to sound like such a newbie, but....

I have looked at this site to learn how to do a mainline, didnt find any info for newbies,,, I don,t know how to. I dont know what holds them on each end, not sure what size wire, etc. Is there a website that shows pics for begginers?

I have even checked you tube for running a mainline ,,no luck.

I feel so dumb !!

Hopefully someone can explain or suggest a website.

Thank-you.

Terry

[adk1]

Do yourself a favor and purchase a copy of the North American Maple Producers Manual. It covers almost every aspect of maple.

[spencer11]

i ran my mainlines with out wire and they worked out perfect, no wire needed, just need to side tie it

here is a youtube channel with lots of maple stuff about mainline, wire, sap ladders etc

http://www.youtube.com/user/Royalmaple?feature=watch

[adk1]

You can side tie it, but hard to do when going across a creek?

[maple flats]

Do you have the ability to run a plastic pipe from one side to the other with a slope towards the side you can get to easily? If yes, just anchor the pipe to an appropriate tree using any number of methods. I use a high tension wire around the tree, run thru a piece of 5/16 tubing to help protect the tree. This loop passes thru to loop on a pipe pull (sometimes called a Chinese Finger grip) that is slid onto the end of the pipe. Then I run across the low area and to where you can collect the sap and anchor the same way. Pull as tight as you can. Then use wire to side tie and protect the pipe with some 5/16 tubing at each point. (I use 1" wide chain lock plastic but you can use anything to pull and protect). At the low end have it run into a collection tank or barrel. If this does not fit your situation you can also put a pump on to pull the sap as long as the lift is not over the ability of the pump to lift (20' lift is considered max or close to max). If you need to use a pump you likely will need a 1" gas powered pump unless you can set up a battery or use the ATV to supply power for a bilge pump. If you give some more details on the lay of the land and the distances we will be able to better give ideas.
On a main line, most use wire to support it, I use the Rapi-Tube method. Google it and look for the video (in English). I use that method but use Leader 30P tubing. I only do it in 3/4" and 1", for larger lines I use High Tensil support wire. You can also use 9 or 11 ga wire and gripples to anchor, or screw an anchor into the tree to tie to.

[spencer11]

i used the blue lamb mainline from bascoms, its the same price as leaders

[unc23win]

I hate to sound like such a newbie, but....

I have looked at this site to learn how to do a mainline, didnt find any info for newbies,,, I don,t know how to. I dont know what holds them on each end, not sure what size wire, etc. Is there a website that shows pics for begginers?

I have even checked you tube for running a mainline ,,no luck.

I feel so dumb !!

Hopefully someone can explain or suggest a website.

Thank-you.

Terry

Sounds like from what you said with the number of taps you will have you could either run ½” or ¾” mainline. Obviously ½ inch is cheaper that’s one Pro for it.
One advantage of ¾” is that you can use saddles to connect your lateral lines.

With ½” you can use either the blue 4 inlet manifold by Lamb or the Star Manifold to connect your lateral lines, both of these require cutting the line and inserting them.

Where as with the ¾” mainline all you do is drill a hole insert the gasket and then clamp the saddle around the line. Another advantage of the ¾” is you can unroll your line pull it up and tighten it running it at your desired slope and then drill the holes and run your lateral lines.
With the ½” you have to unroll the line cut the line put in your manifolds then pull the line tight running at your desired slope and the attach your lateral lines.

According to the book I am looking at Design Installation and Maintenance of Plastic Tubing Systems for Sap Collection in Sugar Bushes ¾ is good for 200 taps at 2% slope 300 taps between 2% and 5% slope and still 300 at 10% slope. ½” is not in this book but it is roughly 50% the amount of taps as 3/4”

Also with the mainline you can also insert Y and T fittings in the line to make it branch out to more trees. Most people would recommend running more mainline in order to shorten the lateral lines. However that depends on how much you want to spend.

I got this book from The Maple Guys the other text mentioned is on Amazon.

[spencer11]

Sounds like from what you said with the number of taps you will have you could either run ½” or ¾” mainline. Obviously ½ inch is cheaper that’s one Pro for it.
One advantage of ¾” is that you can use saddles to connect your lateral lines.

With ½” you can use either the blue 4 inlet manifold by Lamb or the Star Manifold to connect your lateral lines, both of these require cutting the line and inserting them.

Where as with the ¾” mainline all you do is drill a hole insert the gasket and then clamp the saddle around the line. Another advantage of the ¾” is you can unroll your line pull it up and tighten it running it at your desired slope and then drill the holes and run your lateral lines.
With the ½” you have to unroll the line cut the line put in your manifolds then pull the line tight running at your desired slope and the attach your lateral lines.

According to the book I am looking at Design Installation and Maintenance of Plastic Tubing Systems for Sap Collection in Sugar Bushes ¾ is good for 200 taps at 2% slope 300 taps between 2% and 5% slope and still 300 at 10% slope. ½” is not in this book but it is roughly 50% the amount of taps as 3/4”

Also with the mainline you can also insert Y and T fittings in the line to make it branch out to more trees. Most people would recommend running more mainline in order to shorten the lateral lines. However that depends on how much you want to spend.

I got this book from The Maple Guys the other text mentioned is on Amazon.
there are saddles for 1/2", thats what i used, get them from bascoms for $1.20

[red maples]

some of the stuff you can get from tractor supply store if you have one near you hmmm your in Canada so see what you you have around or a mple supply place if thats more convenient. they have 12-1/2 gauge high tensil wire, rachet tighteners, I would use black tubing I don't know what your budget for this year is but you looking at few $100. black water pipe (100 psi ) from home depot or lowes is I think $20-25 per 100 feet as much cheaper then the lamb which is well not sure what the 3/4" size is but the 1" is $45 per 100ft from bascom's as I just bought 100 ft on yesterday.

let me just start a list

3/4 black water pipe
12-1/2 gauge high tensile wire
wire ties (galvanized)
tree marking tape to mark where you line is going to go
you can use heavy duty screw hooks or eyes (300lb load) or just run it around a tree
a site level is a GREAT tool run I think $50 bascom's price
Saddles to tie in laterals (5/16 blue tubing)
use end line slides at the wire to hold the laterals to it.

If you have a maple equipment supplier with in driving distance its a good idea to stop in and ask to talk to someone about setting up a gravity tubing set-up. give them a call ahead so they know your coming and can have someone around fro you to talk to. they will be able to help you and show you what you need to get going.

[spencer11]

some of the stuff you can get from tractor supply store if you have one near you hmmm your in Canada so see what you you have around or a mple supply place if thats more convenient. they have 12-1/2 gauge high tensil wire, rachet tighteners, I would use black tubing I don't know what your budget for this year is but you looking at few $100. black water pipe (100 psi ) from home depot or lowes is I think $20-25 per 100 feet as much cheaper then the lamb which is well not sure what the 3/4" size is but the 1" is $45 per 100ft from bascom's as I just bought 100 ft on yesterday.

let me just start a list

3/4 black water pipe
12-1/2 gauge high tensile wire
wire ties (galvanized)
tree marking tape to mark where you line is going to go
you can use heavy duty screw hooks or eyes (300lb load) or just run it around a tree
a site level is a GREAT tool run I think $50 bascom's price
Saddles to tie in laterals (5/16 blue tubing)
use end line slides at the wire to hold the laterals to it.

If you have a maple equipment supplier with in driving distance its a good idea to stop in and ask to talk to someone about setting up a gravity tubing set-up. give them a call ahead so they know your coming and can have someone around fro you to talk to. they will be able to help you and show you what you need to get going.
why 3/4" mainline?? 1/2" would be fine

[red maples]

I hear they are out there but I can't find saddles for 1/2 inch mainline anywhere. I did a quick search but came up with none.

[adk1]

IF I tap my buddys bush, there will be about 200 taps that are across a 100' wide creek. I would definatly run the 12.5HT wire for a 3/4" mainline to it..IT would be off the normal surface of the water about 20'.
OH nad my vote is for 3/4" mainline to be the smallest mainline anyone should use.

[unc23win]

They are not saddles made for 1/2" they are just saddles with no clamps on Bascoms page they are $1.20 without a gasket and they require 31/64 hole. It says they fit any size main line and are held on with wire ties. The gasket is another .50 so altogether $1.70.

I wouldn't use anything less than 3/4" for mainline if I was using saddles. The bigger the diamter is easier to work with when it comes to unrolling it and besides that 31/64" is a big hole in 1/2"line.

Being that I put up a lot of high tensil fence and have all the tools to make it easy I prefer running my mainlines on 12.5 gauge high tensil wire. I wrap the wire around an anchor tree at both ends using the high tensil tubing and also put that in some black water pipe 1/2" or 3"4 on the lower end I use a ratchet and spring and on the top end just an anchor.

After running the wire out and attaching the anchors, ratchet and spring I tighten the wire up maybe 70% and then I walk the line and just put fence staples used for barbed in any non maple trees along the wire at my desired slope.

Then I tighten the wire up and make sure it is at my desired slope. Then I unroll my line and tie it on with wire ties and once again tighten it as the weight of the line will weigh the wire down and I also make sure to pick up any areas that sag using staples into non maple trees. I have my main lines running across so using the wire and tie method this allows me to easily walk the mainline to check it out without having to deal with with side ties.

Another adavantage of running the mainline across is in my case I can walk back away from it and see the slope and detect any sags easily. Where no non maple tress are available I put it in the metal T fence posts and then tie the wire to them.

[spencer11]

They are not saddles made for 1/2" they are just saddles with no clamps on Bascoms page they are $1.20 without a gasket and they require 31/64 hole. It says they fit any size main line and are held on with wire ties. The gasket is another .50 so altogether $1.70.

I wouldn't use anything less than 3/4" for mainline if I was using saddles. The bigger the diamter is easier to work with when it comes to unrolling it and besides that 31/64" is a big hole in 1/2"line.

Being that I put up a lot of high tensil fence and have all the tools to make it easy I prefer running my mainlines on 12.5 gauge high tensil wire. I wrap the wire around an anchor tree at both ends using the high tensil tubing and also put that in some black water pipe 1/2" or 3"4 on the lower end I use a ratchet and spring and on the top end just an anchor.

After running the wire out and attaching the anchors, ratchet and spring I tighten the wire up maybe 70% and then I walk the line and just put fence staples used for barbed in any non maple trees along the wire at my desired slope.

Then I tighten the wire up and make sure it is at my desired slope. Then I unroll my line and tie it on with wire ties and once again tighten it as the weight of the line will weigh the wire down and I also make sure to pick up any areas that sag using staples into non maple trees. I have my main lines running across so using the wire and tie method this allows me to easily walk the mainline to check it out without having to deal with with side ties.

Another adavantage of running the mainline across is in my case I can walk back away from it and see the slope and detect any sags easily. Where no non maple tress are available I put it in the metal T fence posts and then tie the wire to them.
those are the ones i was talking about, they are just $1.20, the gasket comes with it, you can buy it seperaly if you lost one or something, i actually went to a 29/64" drill bit for them and then i forced the saddle into the smaller hole, the wire ties just keep in on there and from moving. since this is gravity wouldnt you just want to use those saddles anyway instead of spending over $2 for normal ones?

[unc23win]

They might work well for you, but I wouldn't use anythign less than 3/4" line if I was using saddles. Those saddles are not MADE for 1/2". Another thing by using the 3/4 and saddles made for it you can go to vacuum anytime you want if its possible and not have to redo anything or worry as much about leaks.

In my case in particular I have a bunch of 1/2" that I will be phasing out over the next few years. It has the lamb manifolds in it I am going to vacuum and I want to go to 3/4" with saddles in order to shorten some lateral runs. I had 1160 taps in 12 and I am expanding to 1500 in 13. All my new line is 1" or 3/4". I also get the Lapierre Super saddles for $1.95.

[Jeff E]

Terry, does your land lay out so you could slope the small (lateral) lines that go to the trees downhill to a mainline, that in turn would slope downhill and cross the creek?
If so, you could get some natural vacuum from gravity, and have the sap waiting for you on the right side of the creek.

If not, you are going to have to pump it or carry it across. If pumping it, can you pump it all the way to you normal sap storage area?

[TerryEspo]

Hey Guys:

Thanks for all the input.

I went for a little ride on the snow machine to take a looky to assess the "across the creek" scene. I think for this year I will collect in barrels and pump it across to a large container where I boil. My guess is I will be pumping it 300 ft at most. I will pump it through a larger diameter hose, maybe 1" that I will need to take down at the end of the season. Basically the 1" pipe will be temporary just to get my colected sap to my main area. There are trails and other reasons why it must come down.

I look on Ebay for 12 volt pumps and wonder what would be the best ? I can use my ATV or snow machine battery or even bring a 12 volt Marine battery to supply power to the pump. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what little pump may work ? Basically I want to transfer from one tank to another, I can also use this type of pump for my other barrels too. The biggest distance I will be pumping will be from across the creek to my main area. I could also place a raised barrel across the creek and pump into that, then let gravity take it home !!

It is a couple extra steps but will work and I kinda like the idea for this year.

Anyone see or know of a good little pump out there?

Thank-you.

Terry

[spencer11]

check northerntool.com they have some good pumps, you may even want to go with a 1" gas pump, there is one on northern tool for $150 that i plan to get next year

[TerryEspo]

$150 is a great price, I will check that out for sure.

I have a cheapo gas generator that was $99.00 and it is terrible to start, darn China tools are not such a great deal sometimes. I will see who makes that pump.

Thanks.

Terry

[farmall h]

Yup, what you said RedMaples...plus dig deep into the YouTube videos! :)

[pierre]

go on e-bay they have a good selection of pumps im looking to get this http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2Fportable-2-5-hp-2-gas-powered-water-pump-self-priming-%2F230767890529&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FPORTABLE-2-5-HP-2-GAS-POWERED-WATER-PUMP-SELF-PRIMING-%2F230767890529&ei=WnfnUNeLJpT5qAGCwIBY&usg=AFQjCNG6lOmWKHwyJzOdPpRUNhBnRY2DAA&sig2=7IGixVIwHkFwPwv0kyRIQQ&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.aWMto transfer sap from my inground tanks in the woods to tank in the truck then take to to the shack and pump into my head tanks . im using food grade hoses & cam-locks .