stain

[PATheron]

Wasnt sure where to put this but how far does the stain go approx above and below a 5/16 hole? I remember reading it once on Dr Tims stuff but cant find it again. Thanks Theron

[spencer11]

well i heard to tap at least 6 inches above an old hole and 5 inches to the side, so i would assume 5 or 6 inches

[lew]

Theron, It will depend a lot on the tree (it's health, site it's growing, etc.) But I have seenstain as far away as 18 inches above and below the taphole and a little under an inch from each side, not sure, but I believe these were stressed trees. I have also seen stain only 6 inches above and below and only maybe 1/8 inch to the sides. Not sure ove the total spectrum

[psparr]

Wasnt sure where to put this but how far does the stain go approx above and below a 5/16 hole? I remember reading it once on Dr Tims stuff but cant find it again. Thanks Theron

Not sure about vertically, but I thought I read to go 1 1/2"-2" latterly. That way once you make it around the tree, you would have enough new growths I keep tapping around the tree again.

Side note. Where abouts are you in pa, and when do you usually start tapping? I'm near raystown.

[lpakiz]

I have some slabs cut from trees that were tapped with 7/16 taps. The stain is approx 1 inch wide and 10 inches above and 10 inches below the taphole, which is very clearly visible from the "inside" of the tree.

[PATheron]

Guys- So really its not too far to the side at all and maybe a guy wants to figure a foot to 15 inches above and below and then your always going to be out of it? Like you said Lew it probly depends on how vigorous the tree is and is kind of just an approximation. PsPaRR- Im in Mansfield area near NY state line and usually start tapping sometime in January and finish first of Feb.. Thanks Theron

[Bucket Head]

No, not very far out from the sides of the hole, but some distance above and below the hole. I've seen stains from both 7/16 and 5/16 and the difference between the two was quite a bit. I would say your 12-15" estimate would be fine for old holes from 5/16 spiles. You might be okay with old 7/16 holes, but they do make much larger stains. I've seen some really long ones, but I could'nt tell you if the tree's health was good or not.

Steve

[lpakiz]

Well, I'm not sure that you could get a good tap hole even 2 feet above the old stain even if you were in "good" wood. Would the sap run around the sides of the stain and then return to the grain to get into the new tap hole? Or is that column section dead above and below forever--until it grows new wood over the top of it, thick enough to tap?

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

the section that is killed by tapping seems to be linked the the size of the tap and if vacuum is being used. Obviously the larger tap you use the more area of the tree is going to be killed. A couple years ago at the VSMA weekend at Middle high one of the speakers had a slab of wood with variuos tap holes in it. the largest kill area was the 7/16 and the smallest was 7/16 on vacuum. The 7/16 on vac was the size of a pencil but very light in color unlike the others were almost black or very dark brown.

[DrTimPerkins]

the section that is killed by tapping seems to be linked the the size of the tap and if vacuum is being used.

Vacuum has no effect on the size of the wound. The staining column is not bigger if you use vacuum.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

Vacuum has no effect on the size of the wound. The staining column is not bigger if you use vacuum.
so what your saying is the kill area is still the same size as lets say a normal health spout just the discoloring doesn't get as big?

[DrTimPerkins]

so what your saying is the kill area is still the same size as lets say a normal health spout just the discoloring doesn't get as big?

What I am saying is that if you take two genetically identical trees and tap one with 5/16" spout on gravity, and the other with a 5/16" spout on vacuum (as high as you can get it), then wait two years and cut the trees down and measure the volume of the internal wound (stain, discoloration), you will find them to be the same size. Vacuum does not cause the wound to be larger.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

What I am saying is that if you take two genetically identical trees and tap one with 5/16" spout on gravity, and the other with a 5/16" spout on vacuum (as high as you can get it), then wait two years and cut the trees down and measure the volume of the internal wound (stain, discoloration), you will find them to be the same size. Vacuum does not cause the wound to be larger.
i didnt make myself clear but I understand what your saying. I was saying a vac tap hole has less damage not more

[DrTimPerkins]

Not any more, not any less...same amount. Vacuum has no effect either way on the volume of the stain.

[PATheron]

My whole question about the stain all along was trying to figure out how much of the tree up and down from the tap hole is screwed up for future tapping untill the new wood fills in enough down the road that theoretically you could tap over the old hole again. So if your hole is normal tapping heighth you would have a span of maybe 15 inches above and below the hole that isnt ideal to tap again for a lot of years. Im wondering if thats close to accurate. I know everything is approximations, and Im basing everything on a 5/16 tap so I assume a 7/16 be a bit more and quarter a bit less. Im just wondering if the 15 inches seems to be a good figure. Theron

[Bucket Head]

Right out of the North American Maple Producers Manual; "The zone of discoloration may extend 12-18 inches above and below a taphole."

Steve