Best spiles... for bucket using producers

[Sugar-me-Timbers]

I have older spiles (stainless steel with hooks, and soul type). Spud mentioned that the check valve and new taps used in tube style would allow a longer tap period before hole seal. I am in my 3rd year and looking to the future for a longer tap time and health for the trees, what is the BEST to use for bucket people.

[Shawn]

We started in 2001 with buckets only using the spiles, that was thirty buckets, then we went to fifty buckets the next year and in 2008 started some pipe line with only twelve taps on pipe line and the rest buckets. As of this year we have 191 taps on pipe line and the rest with buckets still using the spiles. We will have three hundred taps total this year of 2013. What I have always done is at the end of the season to boil the bucket (spiles) or spouts and again before we start up and have had good luck doing this.

[GeneralStark]

As with tubing, using seasonal spouts will yield the most sap with buckets. You can find 5/16" straight clear spouts for about .17$, and modify your bucket depending upon its arrangement so it will hang on the shoulder of the seasonal spout. Or you can spend more for a stainless or plastic reuseable spout and boil it every season or use some type of sanitizer, or autoclave, but they will never yield as much sap as the first year. Regardless of the material used, microbes will persist, and that will shorten your sap season.

[spencer11]

for loner tap life i would boil any metal ones, and for tree health i would use 5/16" instead of the 7/16" taps, i plan on switching to the smaller ones on my remaining buckets in the next couple years, it also works good if you have taps on tubing, only 1 tapping bit for everything

[Ren]

I also like 5/16" straight seasonal. They are cheap to buy and I can reuse them a couple of times. Just cut a keyhole in the side of the bucket and hang them on. I hang 3,4 and 5 gal pails on them.http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd441/Creekside8/2a8fdd5f7ddac1ba08ed5e55cc90736c.jpghttp://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd441/Creekside8/feb80ec37010f7b2068c550a106cff0f.jpg

[FameFlower]

For right or wrong, I decided to use the new Check Valve (CV2) with the 2000 buckets / gravity tubing I'll be using in 2013. I will be having some hired help and it costs the same amount in labor to collect a bucket with that is half full as it does one that is full... I feel I can get more sap per tap that helps justify my labor expenses. We'll see.

[psparr]

I also like 5/16" straight seasonal. They are cheap to buy and I can reuse them a couple of times. Just cut a keyhole in the side of the bucket and hang them on. I hang 3,4 and 5 gal pails on them.

How did you cut a nice keyhole like that? Just two drill bits?
Have any of the spouts broken, pulled out with a lot of sap?

[spencer11]

you could use a dremel to cut out a hole

[Ren]

I use two spade bits and a knife to clean the holes up. Unfortunately I can not remember what size the top hole is and I am at work for the next 24 hrs so I can't even go and check. I have never had one pull out of the tree and never had a bucket pull off of the spile. They work great!

[heus]

Last year I hung about 25 of my 2 gal aluminum buckets on 5/16 Leader plastic tree-saver tubing spiles. I had to rotate the bucket to dump because you cant take the bucket off, but they worked well and none ever fell out.

[Dave Y]

We hang over 2000 buckets each year. for the last two years we have used nothing but the lapierre straight seasonal spout. we have had good results with them. you must modify the hole on a metal bucket, but it is worth the effort.

[CBOYER]

Look at this one (sorry only in french).
http://www.chaluminox.com/

[markcasper]

has anyone tried these clear seasonal with sap bag holders? was wondering if the'd work on those too?

[wiam]

has anyone tried these clear seasonal with sap bag holders? was wondering if the'd work on those too?

That is what Dave Y is talking about 2 posts ago.

[markcasper]

That is what Dave Y is talking about 2 posts ago.


We hang over 2000 buckets each year. for the last two years we have used nothing but the lapierre straight seasonal spout. we have had good results with them. you must modify the hole on a metal bucket, but it is worth the effort.

I think he is talking about buckets and not "sap-saks", or sap bag holders.

[wiam]

A plastic bag should be lighter than a bucket and this thread asks about buckets.

[Nick1212]

Has anyone tried the 5/16 lapierre straight clear seasonal spout with hooks from a stainless steel spout? I have buckets and I like the idea of seasonal spouts, but I didn't know if it would pull out with the weight of the bucket.
6178

[Ren]

Nick1212 how big are your buckets? Like I said earlier, I hang 4 and 5 gal pails on them and have never had one pull out. Even when they are overflowing! I think you will be fine hanging them on hooks. I have had the odd keyhole stretch out on the 5 gal pails if I leave them full to long.

[Nick1212]

Ren, my buckets are 3 and 4 gals, so I guess I should be all set. I'm thinking this is a great alternative to spending $2.75 per spout. Thanks for your help.

[Ren]

Ya for $2.75 you could buy 14 seasonal ones! The one thing I didn't mention was the piece of tubing. I found with hanging buckets like I do, that if I did not use a small piece of tubing on the spile the sap would sometimes run back up along the bottom of the spile till it hits the flare that holds it on the bucket. It would then drip down the side instead of in the bucket. With the small piece of tubing this is no longer a problem. Not sure if that would be a problem with hanging them on hooks though, but it might be.

[markcasper]

A plastic bag should be lighter than a bucket and this thread asks about buckets.

They are lighter, but I am not sure if it would clear the holder or not, or if the holder would hang down too far...etc making the sap drip out the front instead of into the bag. I guess I'll have to look into this myself....guess noone has tried them with bags yet.

[argohauler]

We hang over 2000 buckets each year. for the last two years we have used nothing but the lapierre straight seasonal spout. we have had good results with them. you must modify the hole on a metal bucket, but it is worth the effort.

Dave Y do you put a bit of tubing on the end like Ren? Do you find it runs back the spout or with enough angle it shouldn't do that? Also are you replacing them every year or every other?

[argohauler]

Has anyone tried the 5/16 lapierre straight clear seasonal spout with hooks from a stainless steel spout? I have buckets and I like the idea of seasonal spouts, but I didn't know if it would pull out with the weight of the bucket.
6178

I see Nick that you had to make the hook smaller so it wouldn't fall off. I have a lot of plastic pails with galvanized and aluminum 7/16 spiles that I want to replace to 5/16. I have lids for the majority of them, but the lids are too small for the most part. They'll keep some junk out, but not rain, so I thought I'll not use the lids anymore and go with the clear spouts as they're cheaper than 5/16 plastic spouts for buckets and then I could replace them every couple years.

I see Lapierre has one with a retaining ring and without. Which ones are yours Nick? Regular are $130 CAN for 1000 and Retaining rings are $140. I was thinking maybe all these loose spile hooks I have may not slip over the one with the ring and I wouldn't have to make the hooks smaller. Nick, also is there enough exit spout after the hook that when you hang the bucket by the hook, it won't run down the side of the bucket? Thanks.

[YAZER]

http://www.chaluminox.com/images/chalum3.jpg

This is what CBOYER mentioned.
This is perfect for a bucket and flat lid..

[Dave Y]

agrohauler,
We do not put tubing on the end. it runs off the end of the spout quite well. a slight angle doesn't hurt though. we put in new ones each year. if you do the math, it will take abot 16 years to spend the amount of a 5/16 cast spout.

[Nick1212]

Argohauler, the Lapierre seasonal spouts that I am going to use have a collar (retaining ring) that will keep the hook from slipping off. I might squeeze the hooks to make them fit a little tighter, but I don't know if that is even necessary. I haven't tried any of this before so I don't know if I will need to add a little section of tube. I will plan on having some tubing on hand just in case I need it though. Even with the additional cost of the tubing it is going to be much cheaper than using metal spouts.

[Dave Y]

There is no need to put a hook on the straight seasonal spout. It will hold a full 4 gal bucket of sap. you can drill the hole fairly straight and the bucket will not fall off. yes there is one with a retaining ring, it will hold the buckets the best. Either one will work!

[markcasper]

Dave, do you find they stay open longer than when you used a conventional used metal spout?

[jimsudz]

I use 16qt wheeling buckets with the dome lid.The buckets were drilled at 3/4 to use the leader tree saver 5/16 hookless tap,will I be able to use the lapierre straight seasonal?Will they hold the weight,will they blow off? Thanks for the info

[Dave Y]

you should be able to use the straight seasonal spout with no problems. If you go to my picasa page i think you will see some buckets hanging on straight spouts.

https://picasaweb.google.com/107850837908574768942/Maple2012#5731813094426896450
https://picasaweb.google.com/107850837908574768942/Maple2012#5731810926395064402

Here are some links to a couple of pics

[jimsudz]

Thanks Dave, was going to look for some used tree savers,this will save me some money!

[Dave Y]

Mark,
They have run longer than the metal spout. What I have experinced is the clear spout hole is cleaner and I have seen run into May,Not that I have collected the sap that long. The metal spout will have black crap in the hole. The clear will not.

[RUSTYBUCKET]

Dave -

Do you have a preference for the standard seasonal spout or the long version ? Also, what tool do you use to install the spouts ?

Thanks

-Russ

[Dave Y]

Rustybucket,
standard spout, and a hammer

[bowtie]

ok, so after reading this thread i am thinking that maybe i should switch to plastic seasonal spiles, but i already have 275-300 cast aluminum 5/16 and 7/16" should i boil these and continue to use them and just add plastic for the rest of my taps or switch to all plastic. i guess what i am asking how much longer will the plastic run and how much more sap you would get, on average?

[bowtie]

i keep going over this thread and am a littled confused(ignorant might be a better term), what is the difference in cv and seasonal taps, and will using a cv extend sap flow more so than a seasonal tap? i am open to new ideas and like i mentioned would consider swithching from my metal spouts, for longer runs and healthier trees.

[Dave Y]

A cv spout is a check valve spout that was developed for vacuum, a seasonal spout can be used with gravity or buckets. A cast metal spout ,5/16 cost new 2.60 ea. they will last you as long as you own it. However you can not ever get them truly bacteria free. Each year when you tap you are introducing bacteria into the tap hole when you tap using used metal spouts or plastic spouts for that matter. A new spout is bacteria free and therefore will take longer to seal off after the hole has been, drilled. A lapierre straight spout is .14 each. you can buy new spouts for 18.5 years before you spend the 2.60 that you spent on the metal spout, and after that long you may or may not have the metal spout. A new spout in the tree each year is the only you will make more sap with buckets, short of putting out more buckets.

[wiam]

i keep going over this thread and am a littled confused(ignorant might be a better term), what is the difference in cv and seasonal taps, and will using a cv extend sap flow more so than a seasonal tap? i am open to new ideas and like i mentioned would consider swithching from my metal spouts, for longer runs and healthier trees.

cv has a ball check valve in it to prevent back flow from tubing. Studies show quite a bit more sap with vacuum tubing, but not a lot with gravity. I would not think it would be worth it with buckets. I do not think a bucket would work well hanging on a cv. The straight though seasonal has a ring that would help hold a bucket on.

[maplefrank]

Mark,
They have run longer than the metal spout. What I have experinced is the clear spout hole is cleaner and I have seen run into May,Not that I have collected the sap that long. The metal spout will have black crap in the hole. The clear will not.

do you think these would hold a 6 gal pail????? `and what size hole do you need in the pail???

[RUSTYBUCKET]

Maplefrank -

I'll defer the 6 gal pail question to others. As for your other question, my Wheeling buckets have about a 3/4" hole. The ring on the seasonal spout will fit through it but there isn't much clearance. It'll be my first year using these spouts so if I run into problems while removing the buckets, I'll probably do as someone suggested and use a dremel tool to amend the size of the hole.

- Russ

[spencer11]

If you have a step bit for your drill those work great for making holes for taps, you can go from small to big without changing bits. So you can experiment with it

[heus]

I have been real happy with the 5/16 blue polycarbonate bucket spouts with swivel hooks. They are actually stronger than the aluminum spouts and seem to run a little longer in the season. (Im not just saying this becsuse I have 105 for sale in the classifieds either:)

[maple marc]

I have used Leader 5/16" aluminum spiles for several years. I would rate them fair because of a design flaw. The horn that holds the bucket on the spile is too sharp--it can cut a slice through the wall of the plastic bucket, allowing the bucket to fall off. See my photos below. Otherwise, they are very durable and will last for decades.

Leader, I hope you are listening and will design a spile with a better bucket horn.

As far as sterilizing the spiles, I boil mine and find it hard to believe that microbes could survive. If you are worried, used a pressure cooker--that's what hospitals use.


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv273/marc5/Picture006_zpsf2fccb47.jpg

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv273/marc5/Picture002_zps15c6650b.jpg

[bowtie]

i think that boiling takes care of most if not all bacteria but i am guessing that the metal spiles are more porous than plastic and that allows bacteria to colonize faster. i am guessing that leader will not be making changes anytime soon due to the fact that most still use metal buckets. could you put some "brush on rubber" on the hook to soften it a little, or look for metal groumets to go around hole, usually they just press together, it might save you buckets in the long run.

[killingworthmaple]

Hi all I made up some hooks for my aluminum buckets and check valves they look like they will work good. The regular size hooks are to sloppy so I made these. I took some pictures. If anyone's interested I could make some up for them 75 cents each.

Nathan
860-604-81156515651665176518

[Spolcik]

I used the same taps myself and I ground off the horn at the bottom of the tap then slid a half inch hose over it set my bucket on the ground seemed to work very well. I also had lids on my bucket and drilled a hole in the lid to put the hose into it to keep debris and rain water out. I was very happy with this set up and didn't have to worry about my buckets breaking and falling. This referring to the 5/16 leader aluminum tap

[killingworthmaple]

I have used the bucket on the ground also in the past its a good way to go. But I have a couple of people who's land I tap on that like the look of the buckets hanging on the trees.

Nathan

[cncaboose]

If you want the best overall tap for buckets you want the stainless ones from NGMP. http://nextgenmaple.com Taps are indestructible, will not harbor bacteria like plastic if you clean and boil, will hold a full 4 gallon bucket without pulling out, don't pull out on windy days or have the bucket blow off. Are they worth $3 each? That's up to you. I bought 30 last year to try out and now have purchased more for 2013 for all our wind exposed trees. I hate losing sap, losing taps, and chasing buckets. WAY better than the Leader aluminum taps.

[wiam]

If you want the best overall tap for buckets you want the stainless ones from NGMP. http://nextgenmaple.com Taps are indestructible, will not harbor bacteria like plastic if you clean and boil, will hold a full 4 gallon bucket without pulling out, don't pull out on windy days or have the bucket blow off. Are they worth $3 each? That's up to you. I bought 30 last year to try out and now have purchased more for 2013 for all our wind exposed trees. I hate losing sap, losing taps, and chasing buckets. WAY better than the Leader aluminum taps.

Pretty sure Proctor has found the stainless will still have bacteria unless it is autoclaved.

[cncaboose]

Not to take anything away from Proctor but lets be realistic, bucket tapping with open taps is not a sterile operation. Any residual bacteria on a boiled stainless spout is going to be insignificant compared to the dirt from the air, bugs crawling around, and the fact that you install the spouts with anything less than sterile surgical gloves and a sterilized hammer.

[spencer11]

Not to take anything away from Proctor but lets be realistic, bucket tapping with open taps is not a sterile operation. Any residual bacteria on a boiled stainless spout is going to be insignificant compared to the dirt from the air, bugs crawling around, and the fact that you install the spouts with anything less than sterile surgical gloves and a sterilized hammer.

you mean you dont boil your hammer after each season and steralize it? :lol:

[CBOYER]

Not to take anything away from Proctor but lets be realistic, bucket tapping with open taps is not a sterile operation. Any residual bacteria on a boiled stainless spout is going to be insignificant compared to the dirt from the air, bugs crawling around, and the fact that you install the spouts with anything less than sterile surgical gloves and a sterilized hammer.

Thanks, Cn caboose, You explain very well what my french speaking cannot do.

[bowtie]

ok so i have 2 gal aluminum buckets with flats lids how am i going to make a seasonal spout work with these? i do not want to drill out the holes in the buckets i think this may be a pain and ruin some buckets. the i pic of the spout with hanger and lid holder looks good but where can you get just the lid holder? the pic shows a metal spout and that is what i am trying to get away from. if i have to buy the the whole thing or new lids it will not make it very cost effective.

[grinch5010]

I use the leader 5/16 health spouts. I love them since we do not need to fool with the hooks anymore. Any truth to using alcohol such as vodka to sterilze the spouts before putting them in?

[psparr]

do you think these would hold a 6 gal pail????? `and what size hole do you need in the pail???

There's another thread where a guy hangs 5 gallon buckets on straight seasonal spouts without a problem.

[argohauler]

ok so i have 2 gal aluminum buckets with flats lids how am i going to make a seasonal spout work with these? i do not want to drill out the holes in the buckets i think this may be a pain and ruin some buckets. the i pic of the spout with hanger and lid holder looks good but where can you get just the lid holder? the pic shows a metal spout and that is what i am trying to get away from. if i have to buy the the whole thing or new lids it will not make it very cost effective.

Those lid hangers that were posted by CBoyer are sold separately. I tried to buy some for this season, but they aren't available till next season. They cost .05 CDN.

So I made my own. I used half inch black water line. I cut them a half inch long and I drilled with a 1/8 bit, a hole across the top half. A hook will fit behind and the retaining ring won't get past the lid wire. Tested it out on a tree, but the sap is going to drip on the hook and go down the side of the bucket, so I'm putting on 2" of new line.

[maplefrank]

finally took the plunge!!!!!!! bought 1000 lappiere clear spouts...... but i'm sure the help wont be happy, since i cnt take buckets off to dump. i put gromets in the plastic buckets and the hole is too small ......

[spencer11]

couldnt you just make the hole bigger?

[maplefrank]

i would have to get bigger grommets. i have tried that, but didnt get the riht size, they were too big.

[bowtie]

i purchased seasonal spouts(90 degree) nobody had straight,and rigged up about 300 wire holders that will work with my flat lids and and should be strong enough to hold my 2 gallon buckets but today when i went to tap my trees in my lawn i noticed that the spouts will need a 3-4 inch piece of tubing, kind of knew this, otherwise the sap will not drip into the bucket. i am not sure straight spouts would make a difference but i am going to try some. i really wanted to get about half of my taps in today but without tubing and no place open to purchase any, i cleaned my tanks and evap again. now i just have to clean out my holding tank, it's a bit of a pain as i do not have running water there but i should get that done tomorrow and some taps in after work. hope to be all tapped by thursday at the latest.still need a couple cage tanks but hopefully i can pick up a couple this week or next.

[Dave Y]

If you need straight spout send me a PM i will send you some .

[bowtie]

not so sure about the seasonal spouts yet, they are not like tapping in a metal spout. listening for that distinctive thump and looking at each, some are in only a little bit and some seem to be in far enough, the ones that did not seem to seat far enough in i tunked them in a little more, hope i did not split the wood, i will know tomorrow. it is a learning experience for sure.