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maple flats
11-26-2012, 06:59 PM
I started in solar in the summer of 2009, by buying a solar panel @ 150 watts on Ebay. We had talked of getting into solar for several years. The 1 panel became 2 a couple of weeks later, and we hit the ground running. We knew little about solar and bought a poor inverter and cheap charge controller. We did get a small but decent battery bank for starters in getting 4 quality 240 AH 6V batteries, made for solar. This was our system the first year. We learned plenty from our mistakes and were ready to expand the system. However we had learned that you can not hook different panels together AND that our first 2 were not UL. If we ever wanted to tie to the grid, all components needed to be UL.
In 2010 we ordered 4 @ 185 watt UL panels, a MPPT (maximum power point tracking) charge controller and and a quality inverter, all UL. Since batteries of different ages don't do well together, we also doubled our battery bank after just 6 weeks of use, so we then had 8 @ 240 AH and the ages were fairly close. This bank is still in use. It will be upgraded to about 850 AH at 48V when replacement is needed (in another 3-5 yrs?).
In 2011 we got 4 more of the same panels and connected them to our growing array, all other equipment was good for that size, so only the panels were needed.
In 2012 we decided to double our power and order 8 more panels, but we discovered that they had been discontinued, in favor of higher wattage panels. After some studying the situation, we decided to finish the whole project before any replacement panels chosen were also discontinued. Thus we decided to get 22 panels, same brand, but in 220 watts each and decided to go grid tied. For grid tied all systems must be installed by a "certified installer". We hired one and the waiting began. First we had to get power to the sugarhouse. This took far too long, awaiting their planning department, then their legal department, then their billing department. When we got a bill, a check was in the mail the very next day. Then we had to wait again.
The plan was to run a pole just into the woods, at 210' off the road, mount a transformer and I would run the secondary lines to the sugarhouse. I asked if I could run them while I waited but was told to await the setting of the pole. After 4 months total wait they set the pole and I ran the power secondary lines another 220', to a meter pole, main disconnect set outside the sugarhouse and then another 35' into the sugarhouse and a new entrance panel box. Then the waiting began again. The installer had to await approval of the project from our state program, NYSERDA before they could even order the materials and extra equipment needed. That approval came and the mounts, panels etc were ordered. As soon as the components arrived (so I was told) the installer started the job. All went well, until they went to hook up a new inverter for the expansion array. It seems the inverter had arrived with internal damage. A relay had broken loose inside and did considerable damage.
Today, a replacement inverter arrived, the contractor installed it and my solar system was turned on. I now have 6.32 KW of solar, 1480 watts original with battery backup and grid tied, and the 4840 watts additional, grid tied only.
I can't wait to go watch the meter run backwards!
Dave

Thad Blaisdell
11-26-2012, 07:20 PM
congrats.... long time to wait, worse than christmas when you were 6

DrTimPerkins
11-27-2012, 08:38 AM
Congratulations....sure is nice to see that meter running backward. The "Maple Processing Research Facility" at UVM PMRC (where we have the 4 evaporators for research on how sap processing affects chemistry, quality, flavor of syrup) has a 2kW solar system, grid-tied only. We've been extremely happy with it -- and have had a net positive power generation since installation (meaning we've made more power than we've consumed).
6039

Revi
11-27-2012, 09:24 AM
We have solar on our house, but not at the sugarhouse. It would be nice, but we're down in a hollow, and it's not a sunny spot. We love the solar at home. We have solar hot water, which is great with a teenager in the house! We also have a backup solar electricity system with one panel and some LED lights. Along with the woodstove it makes it possible to be very comfy when the power goes out.

maple flats
11-27-2012, 08:45 PM
At 6.32KW,my system is quite large. It was designed to provide all the power for both the sugarhouse and a new home planned to be about 80' from the sugarhouse.

Bucket Head
11-28-2012, 12:13 AM
Hi Dave,

Interesting solar story. I've always wished we had a stream here- I would love to play around with the small hydro units that are out there. Just enough to get my feet wet- pun intended, lol! Back to the solar set-up and the backwards meter, on average, how much "surplus" electric might you make per month and how much does the grid company pay for that? Will this large of a system pay for itself in a decent amount of time? Did you get any grant money for your system? I know of a windmill install near me that had half the cost covered, making it a little easier for the owner.

Steve

maple flats
11-28-2012, 06:07 AM
I had about 50% paid by NYSERDA for my expansion portion. Since the original part was off grid I paid 100% for that. They only pay for new, grid tied systems. NYSERDA recently dropped from $2.00/watt, to $1.75/watt and now are at $1.50/watt. No telling where it might go from here.For the bal I have Fed and State income tax credits due. These will end in tax year 2016, and can be carried thru until used up. A couple of good years in there for either maple or blueberries or one good year having both will use up the tax credits. They can only be carried forward until the sunsetting of the existing law. IF I get to use the credits my expansion will cost me just over $10,000, the credits total just over $5,000. My original system ran about $8000 in years past. The rest of this I'll need to answer later, must go to work now.
OK, I'm back. I'll have to report back on the solar I sent them, it is based on several factors. The big one is sunshine, but the first day with the whole system on it was fairly overcast BUT I sent enough energy to them that by the next morning I was on the good side of zero. I'm likely to do OK on an annual basis until I build the new home there. OK because I will send them more than I consume annually. The way net metering works is that while I go back and forth, the actual balance ledger is on the anniversary date of when the net meter was connected. On the plus side everything I sent them was at my cost (retail) but at the anniversary date, if they owe me money, it is only at their wholesale cost, and they only pay on the anniversary date. I think that will be around 2-3 cents/KWH. Thus it really only pays to get to net zero. The only plus after that is the satisfaction that I generated more than I consumed. It will never be a way to make money.
As for pay back. While I was off grid, I had to use a diesel generator quite a bit in maple season. My small 1480 watt battery backup was undersized to keep up more than 2-3 hrs after sunset, it would have done far better had I gotten a bigger battery bank. It did handle everything before sunset, except the very overcast days. As such I really count my diesel savings as being payback too. After the diesel savings it would take a very long time to pay for the system, until I build a home onsite. My typical energy consumption says that it will be paid for in 14-16 yrs, if I build in 4 yrs. If building gets delayed further, the payback will also push out.
After I signed for the contractor my situation changed. My MIL started needing help much more so we bought a duplex, we moved in one side and she into the other. At the age of 86 it is anybodies guess how long she will need this arrangement, but we are here however long. The soonest I could be ready is 4 yrs. We had not foreseen this coming. My MIL has called me "mister wonderful" for years, I could never turn my back on her.
On the solar side, the system will likely still be generating power in 50 yrs (the first panels made in the 1940's still generate power, but it does drop over time.) Maintenance will be minimal EXCEPT for my battery backup portion. The currant bank is expected to last another 3-5 yrs. Then I plan to buy a better grade of solar battery with a 15 yr life expectancy. That part will likely never pay for itself, the rest should make up most of the difference. Basically, I have paid for my energy use for the rest of my life and after that my heirs will either move in or reap some premium from having a complete solar system connected.

Z/MAN
11-28-2012, 10:09 PM
Flats, A friend of mine installed a 10 kw system on his home 2 years ago. His credits added up pretty well last year and he ended up having to pay the IRS for the "profit" he made! The power company sent him a tax form. Last time I talked with him he was adding electric heat to the home so his "profits" would be lower.