Cutting in "T's" on latterals causing sags?

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Running latterals with 30P today I hung the spool from the main, pulled the line out, put the end drop in and then ran the line back to the main, stretched it tight, inserted a hooked connector and clipped it to the main wire. I did this for the whole main line in the morning (about 25 degrees out) and then went back and cut in the drop line "T's" with a two-handed tool about 11:00 (when it was about 45 degrees) and got some noticable sagging in the latterals. No latterals were longer than 60 feet and I kept the drops to 4 or less per latterals with no sharp bends. Have you guys seen this --- and what do you do?

Thanks,

Brian

[ennismaple]

I always stretch the laterals as tight as I can knowing they will loosen a bit when you cut in the droplines. The beauty of the slide fittings that lapierre sells vs the insert hook connector is you can adjust them later if the line sags too much. Shorter laterals will sag more than longer ones.

[spud]

The slide fittings are the only way to go and are now being sold by all maple equipment dealers. A hook connector is just another possible leak that is not needed. When I put up tubing I hang my spooler on the main line and start going to my first tree. When I get to my 3-5 trees I then use a slide fitting on the end tree. I then grab the tubing and start heading back to the mainline keeping it tight. I put a slide fitting on the lateral about 4 feet from the mainline and then hook it to the wire. By this time my lateral is tight. When you put your drops into a line that has sag you need to clamp on to your tubing with your two handed tubing tools handles spread apart as far as they can be. The knife on the tool will cut one side and then you will have to cut the other side as close to the clamp as possible. Now you have just cut out 2 inches of tubing at each drop location which will shorten your overall lateral by 6-10 inches causing it to be tighter.

Spud

[marc]

Spud, what you described is the exact same procedure that I do. Cutting that short piece out as needed when installing t's on the end ring/hook connector setup really tightens things up good. Now that i use the slides on both ends i am sold on them. Huge savings on time when running lats.

[wiam]

I often do what Spud describes. Some times I pull one side tighter and reclamp to cut off more if it needs it.

[Maple Hill]

Slide clamps are the only way to go,after using them today i,m sold on them.

[Thad Blaisdell]

On 30p slide clamps are for the birds in my opinion. Hate them. On semi rigid pipe I bet they work pretty good but then I dont care for semi ridgid pipe for lats. Now for the original question. This will happen all the time with the 30p, fact of life. Best to install when warm but all you have to do is cut a little out when it does this and it will never do it again. When doing the original install in the cold pull a little too tight to start. I love the 30p but prefer to string it when its warmer for this reason.

[spencer11]

i agree with using the slide fittings, i havent used them with my 30p but they work great for rigid tubing

[spud]

Hey Thad,

Why not slide fittings with 30p tubing? Is it because the 30p is a slick tubing and the fitting does not stick or hold good? What are you using for both ends of your lateral lines? Thanks

Spud

[Thad Blaisdell]

No they do not stick that great. You really need to force them closed. And what I dont like is when a stick or such falls on the line it pulls the tubing through the slide fitting and bends the end of the saddle over..... Nope they are not for me, I am sticking with the connectors and hooks. On the other end I use the CDL hook. then when I put in the drop I use a dead end T. The advantage to this is the squirrels seem to prefer the end of the lats that go all the way around the tree. This way they can chew on that all they want and it doesnt effect the vaccum. The slides for hitching the mainline I have about 400 of them out and have replaced 20 or so with connectors and hooks and will most likely keep replacing them.

[sjdoyon]

Brian,

It's possible if your mainline is not tight, you pulled it with one or more of your lateral lines. You might get the slack out of the lines by adjusting your side wires on the mainline.

[sapman]

Thad,

I assume you're using the CDL plugged T? Do you know if this one, or any other, is going to work to plug the CV2s, or the tubing after the spout is cut off? Of course, I could just turn the cv around.

Thanks

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Thanks for the replies guys, we cut in another 200 "T's" using the method of spreading the two-handed tool wide, cutting one side with the tool cutter, and then cutting out a couple inches with a tubing cutter. Worked great!

We use Leader 30P for latterals with straight hooked connectors to the wire and Lapierre End of Drop-Line Hooks at the last tree. We like it, but I'm always looking for a better way -- that's why I love this site!

[Thad Blaisdell]

There are 100's of right ways... you just have to find the one that works for you. Once you find it you still cant be afraid to try something new as it might be better.

The ones I use are solid blue. They will take either just tubing, where you take the spout off, or they will take a stubby.

[adk1]

I misss doing all of that. I thought that running the lines was a really enjoyable thing to do. I will add a few more this year but not like setting everything up like I did last year.

[Randy Brutkoski]

I am with you Thad. I used slide fittings in 1 bush and i wished i did it with hooks and end ring. And it is alot cheaper for end rings and hooks than the slide fitting.

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

Thad,

Do you have any trouble holding the 30-P on the CDL end hooks and "T"s versus the Leader fittings?

[Thad Blaisdell]

No none. I have tried multiple different fittings. I have no specific favorite for any other fittings. I do like the leader fittings as they are a little bigger but I am not sure that makes a significant difference. The only two things that will not change is the hook on the wire, cdl end hook, and the cdl saddle.

[GeneralStark]

While we're throwing around ideas...I know it has been mentioned here before but thought it might be useful in this thread. I have been using the end line hook fitting that CDL sells, so I start at the end tree and run the lateral around and down to the mainline and cut it to length. Then I use some 3/8" braided plastic rope and slide that over the lateral (chinese finger cuff style) then tie the rope to the mainline or a tree if that makes more sense. I like being able to adjust the tension without cutting the lateral, the rope is cheap, and one less fitting to install. I also use wireless lateral mainlines so the tension from the lateral acts as another side tie.

What do you guys do with all those 2" bits of tubing?

[adk1]

I am with you Thad. I used slide fittings in 1 bush and i wished i did it with hooks and end ring. And it is alot cheaper for end rings and hooks than the slide fitting.
All of my end trees go around the back and I use the slide fittings with the hook. I am really thinking about changing them out this year and trying to figure out a good way of attaching the lat to the tree without having to go around it

[sapman]

No none. I have tried multiple different fittings. I have no specific favorite for any other fittings. I do like the leader fittings as they are a little bigger but I am not sure that makes a significant difference. The only two things that will not change is the hook on the wire, cdl end hook, and the cdl saddle.

Are you using the multi-fitting for the saddle? Fixed or swivel? I've had some trouble with them, but perhaps no more than any other fitting would give me.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I really like the idea of the fixed ones, but the problem with them is when something falls on the line and the hooked connector comes off the line it bends them over, I like the swivel ones as well. I have had no trouble at all with any of them ever leaking. Or coming loose, I do not wire tie them at this point, will that change in the future maybe but for now I do not.

[whalems]

All of my end trees go around the back and I use the slide fittings with the hook. I am really thinking about changing them out this year and trying to figure out a good way of attaching the lat to the tree without having to go around it
I use the end Y fitting with the endline adjuster works well for me. http://www.sugarbushsupplies.com/2012_Catalog/lambtubingfittings.pdf part 35-y and 36

[adk1]

I use the end Y fitting with the endline adjuster works well for me. http://www.sugarbushsupplies.com/2012_Catalog/lambtubingfittings.pdf part 35-y and 36

what does the end line adjuster do? I thought that the end y fitting used a piece of scrap tubing to loop around the tree and therefore no sap would go through it. then the tubing just went right through the middle

[whalems]

what does the end line adjuster do? I thought that the end y fitting used a piece of scrap tubing to loop around the tree and therefore no sap would go through it. then the tubing just went right through the middle
I put a short piece of tubing on one side of the Y then the adjuster. then a long enough piece of tubing on the other side of the Y and you can tension your laterals with it and you can also take the lats down with out having to cut the line. I can get pics if that helps.

[whalems]

hope this helps

[adk1]

Yes, that definatly helps...thanks!

[lakeview maple]

Thanks Whalems ,its not how I do mine but it sure looks better,lol you learn a little every time on here.Al

[JoeJ]

Whalems,

Not to be too critical, but the pictures show an extra fittings and extra work that could be accomplished with a plugged tee and the same end of the line ring.

Joe

[whalems]

Whalems,

Not to be too critical, but the pictures show an extra fittings and extra work that could be accomplished with a plugged tee and the same end of the line ring.

Joe

No offense taken at all. this was how my local dealer showed me how and it works well. I am not exactly clear on what you are saying about an extra fitting. I too am always looking for a better/cheaper way. do you have pictures of what you are talking about? or maybe a clear explanation to the set up you are talking about? Thanks, Mike

[spud]

A standard Y or T can be used for the ends of every lateral line if you are looking to save money. Once you wrap around the tree with tubing you then have to just cut in your drops using a two handed tubing tool.

Spud

[spencer11]

if you just you an end ring you cant just take the line down if you need to, you have to cut it, if you do it like wahlems you dont have to cut the tubing

[wiam]

I use an end fitting that has a hook instead of a ring. Then I can take it down easily. If you are concerned about sap going around the tree you can use a dead end T.

[Thad Blaisdell]

cdl end of line hook

https://www.bascommaple.com/item/ipelch/ipl_fittings/

dead end T

https://www.bascommaple.com/item/iptpb/

[adk1]

I never thought about that. I have a bunch of "Y" fittings that I can use for the endlines. yeah, I would not be able to adjust the line at the end tree but its not a huge deal to walk to the mainline where my slide fitting is..Hmmm

[Middleton Maples]

I've always used the cdl end line hook on my lines since there is a few lines that I have to take down each year but I never knew they made a dead end tee. Gunna have to get them that way sap doesn't get trapped in the line that goes around the tree.

[adk1]

exactly what I am saying too. I use the slide fittings which are nice but dont like the sap being stuck around the tree

[Thad Blaisdell]

I dont know about your squirrels but it seems like a favorite spot to chew, all the way around the tree. They can have that as a snack and it doesnt effect the vacuum at all.

[markcasper]

I dont know about your squirrels but it seems like a favorite spot to chew, all the way around the tree. They can have that as a snack and it doesnt effect the vacuum at all.This is why I use a slide fitting at the end, extend the drop and use a loop of 14 gauge wire around every end tree and hook it to that. I have had many "dead" loops of tubing let loose because a tree rat ate all the way through it, hence also giving up on that idea. As for not working on 30p? I have not encountered it bad enough to give up on what I've been doing.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I have to say that on all the lines that I have I only tighten about 1% of lines each year. That kind of makes the slides not really worth bothering with. If you are tightening your lines every year you are doing something else wrong. Maybe you should look for that. I do not use semi rigid pipe for laterals. I have maybe 10 laterals that are semi rigid lats and they all sag and I probably should tighten them, but I can pull and pull and pull and all it does is stretch the pipe. For you guys that swear by it good for you, its not for me. Give a roll of rigid pipe a try and your tightening days will be over.

Anyways, there are 100's of right ways to do this, each way will have pros and cons. I have a way that I like and everyone else has a way that they like. I am not unwilling to try something else (and have) but this is what works best for me.

[TunbridgeDave]

Haven't been on for months, but as I am doing some expansion, I thought I would look into this thread. Like Thad, I love the cdl end line hooks. It's simple, there's no dead space around the tree and you can take the line down w/o cutting anything. I also prefer 30p for everything. The animals seem to like it the least. As far as mainline attachment I use only the cdl swivel saddles and never had any leak. However, like GeneralStark, I also use the black poly rope to tie the laterals to the mainline wire. It's dirt cheap and as long as you melt the cut ends so it won't unravel on you it works fine and doesn't slip on the 30p. I make sure and have at least 12 to 16" of rope gripping the tubing. Sags are easy enough to take care of during the season when we walk the lines and I use a little baling twine here and there.

Thanks everyone for being part of this great community.