sub pump

[garyp]

Has any one you's a sub pump to transfur sap into holding tank ,looking to pump about 8-10' high, thanks

[murferd]

I presume you mean sump pump. If so, we've used a submergable one for years & works great

[garyp]

ya thats what i ment, thanks

[be3169]

Feel free to ingest lead from the brass impeller and petroleum from the non-food grade grease. Sump pumps are fine if you are pumping sewage or raw water... not for food product

[wiam]

Can't disagree with this.............
Feel free to ingest lead from the brass impeller and petroleum from the non-food grade grease. Sump pumps are fine if you are pumping sewage or raw water... not for food product

[jrgagne99]

Using non-food-grade equipment gives the maple industry a very bad name.

[red maples]

yes agreed 100% ...... although apparently there are food grade stainless submergable pumps I have yet to see one but I have heard they exsist.

what about a well pump would that work hmmm well I gues not because.....hmmm just answered my own question.

[garyp]

OK, I guess i'll just tranfur by hand. Thanks

[red maples]

you don't need to transfer by hand get a potable water transfer pump. they make both self priming and manual priming ones. Do a search for walrus transfer pumps I have 1 they work great you just need a good foot valve. They will run you about $300 but they are SOOOOO worth every penny. they are sealed so there is no leaking of no-food stuffs into your sap. Sap pumps is ALWAYS a hot button on the trader. and it always starts a debate or a fight in some cases.....but we are all in this together.

[Like Minded Farmer]

Hello all,

This thread and another on the bush about food grade equipment issues and such brings up questions. I like to keep good with food grade handling of the sap too and hope were all heading in a better direction.

When did brass become a lead hazard? Maybe it is and I never knew it, but our houses are all plumbed with it. Most of the filter presses and other pumps sold specifically for maple are brass. Is there lead free brass?
Why can we wash our dishes with detergent and rinse them, even in a restaurant, knowing there are traces of soap left behind, and this is quite acceptible, but we can't use soap for our maple equipment?
Why do we use bleach to flush our lines and clean tanks etc. and in the city chlorine is put in the water supply, even though these substances have a higher hazard class than dish soap, or fire foam as started the thread on the bush?
Others on here are talking about using peroxide to flush lines to keep the critters from chewing them. Not the kind we put on a cut or scrape, but peroxide that will kill your skin, turn it white and make it fall off if it gets on you. MAybe it is ok, but sure doesn't sound good.
Why can we buy water in a bottle of 40% post consumer material, or have our kids eat out of school lunch trays that are made from recycled plastic, but a plastic impeller is really bad?
I would not use a sump pump due to the grease but would not have considered the plastic impeller as a problem.
Don't even get me started about pesticide use or pink slime with amonia being put in our hamburger. This is a real pisser.

I could list more, but the point is to bring up that we as a society do certain things everyday that are looked upon as favorable, green and neccesary to save natural resources, and then are sometimes scorned.

I guess I'm just thinking out loud here and will say that I have to go home and get rid of the garden hose. I never gave that a thought as hazardous and actually sip off it myself when it is hot out and I'm working too hard to bother going inside. Look at the food vendors next time you get to the county fair. Every last one has a garden hose coming into it and if you follow one you'll see brass tee and maybe a little duct tape on a leak. All display the certificate of the local food preparer inspector with the seal of approval.

Noone wants a roundup tank and if it is even questionable or not able to be verified, don't use it but some of these questions still make me wonder.

[YAZER]

Thats a great response and good observations. I'm not sure how many taps or gals garyp makes a year... but for the small sugarmaker who isn't in it for a profit/living, I would think a oil free submersible pump would be fine.

Greg

[wiam]

Thats a great response and good observations. I'm not sure how many taps or gals garyp makes a year... but for the small sugarmaker who isn't in it for a profit/living, I would think a oil free submersible pump would be fine.

Greg

Personally if I would not sell it I would not feed it to my own family. There are states where it is not legal to plumb potable water with brass because of the lead in it. Brass pumps will not be allowed to pump sap with VT "proposed" voluntary certification. My guess it is because you are then concentrating any lead.

[red maples]

to "like minded farmer"..... I couldn't agree more. there are many many questions like that. We are a world dependent on chemicals and oil and LARGE amounts medications in our food supply, arsenic fed to chickens, An allowable amounts chemicals that aren't harmful in the level allowed by them selves but add them together they are lethal ........ don't get me started on monsanto and GMO's .....anyone using roundup should be drawn and quartered for supporting this company. then we wonder why the USA has the highest rate of obesity, cancer, diabetes, we now have the most cases of food allergies, we now have ADHD, and autism. amoung many other ailments cases by what we are "allowed" to do instead of using plain old common sense. one more thing. One stupid thing is and to me this is VERY backwards, if you use insecticides and pesticides chemical fertilizers, etc you don't have to label anything. But to be organic boy you better have the paperwork to back it up! with the 3rd party inspectors all you reciepts, blah blah blah. Somthing wrong with that.

OK now this is a little off topic to the guy who just asked about a sump pump.....nuff said for me on this subject sorry.

[twitch]

Brass is .07% lead. Brass is considered to be lead free if it does not contain more then .25 percent per the state of california.
If you look at the chemical composition of stainless there are things in it that are not good for you. read all about chromium 304 stainless is 18 %

[RileySugarbush]

and your fillings are likely 50% mercury. Time to panic and rip our teeth out!

[happy thoughts]

Brass is .07% lead. Brass is considered to be lead free if it does not contain more then .25 percent per the state of california.
If you look at the chemical composition of stainless there are things in it that are not good for you. read all about chromium 304 stainless is 18 %

I'm going to respectfully disagree. The EPA lead free standard for brass plumbing fittings or fixtures used for dispensing water for human ingestion is currently 8%. It changes to the California standard in 2014. Since sump pumps aren't usually used for potable water I'd assume they could exceed that limit and probably do.

http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/lcr/lead_nsfstandard.cfm

Brass is also loaded with zinc which can also be toxic. And brass corrodes pretty readily in the presence of moisture and that corrosion is going to end up in the water, sap, or whatever you're pumping. If it's sap, you're going to concentrate those levels 35-40 X or more by the time you've made syrup.

As for the components of Brass vs SS, stainless is much more corrosion resistant than brass so it's not really fair to compare them. I've never heard of anyone getting a new brass hip or knee:) It's the low reactivity that made high chromium SS an early choice for surgical implants. Chromium toxicity is rare and mostly occurs only when its powdered form is inhaled.

To each his own but imho if you need a sump pump for sap, you're probably talking a lot of sap. That means a whole lot of syrup that could potentially be contaminated with lead and zinc. For anyone starting out with plans to sell syrup, I'd say lead and zinc contamination is a big enough consumer concern to make it worthwhile enough to start out right, not only to build a reputation as a quality producer but also because there's a huge industry at stake. Proposed certification standards as in VT can only be a good thing imho and those producers who are certified will likely be able to get a better price.

Just my 2 cents :-|