Bender - bouncing rod and float

[Joust7.1]

OK, so I picked up one of the small Bender washer/releasers last winter. I built up a manifold and tee to attach to the bottom of the jar with valves on each side. We ran out of sap before I could get it up and running last season with only 3 days of boiling. I've set it up for tests a couple times now to try it out, using water in a bucket and running the vacuum pump to try to watch it cycle. The vacuum is connected to the plastic tee at the top of the bender. I've tried numerous different weights on the spring clip. What happens is that the vacuum draws the water into the jar as expected and the float rises up to the spring clip. This all works as expected, then instead of releasing until the float drops to the bottom spring clip, the rod and float just starts jumping up and down (only about a fraction of an inch) and never releasing more than a few tablespoons at a time. I've looked at so many threads on here to try to see what I might be doing wrong or if a part is missing. Note: I bought all new seals, the plastic cap w/bushing for the rod and the plastic vacuum line connector before trying it out. The best that I can tell is that the rod doesn't get enough vacuum to stay in the up position long enough to release all or most of the water. I'm using a delaval dairy pump that appears to be in good working order and draws a steady vacuum. Could the rod itself be worn out enough that it doesn't stay in the up position? Any suggestions would be helpful and appreciated.

[lpakiz]

On my small Bender, running 21-22 inches of vacuum, I needed (2) 5/8 nuts in addition to the standard factory weight on the float. rod

[Joust7.1]

Larry, can you tell me approximately how heavy the factory weight should be? Mine came with only a couple stainless nuts and no factory weight. I'm only running about 15" right now. The problem doesn't seem to be with releasing the vacuum but more with holding the rod in the up position while the float comes down with the level of the water/sap. I may be figuring it all wrong but it seems like less weight would be the answer, yet it still doesn't "hold" in the up position even with no weight.

[lpakiz]

Joust,
I have 2 factory weights in my hand. They weigh 2.2 and 2.3 ounces (62g and 66g) respectively. Not sure why there is even that much difference, but there is.

The factory weights are made of 7/8 (22.21mm) diameter Stainless Steel, and are 15/16 inch (23.86mm) long. They have a hole bored thru to fit on the rod. That hole is .265 inch (6.80mm) diameter.

For 22 inches vacuum, my weight is 3.5 ounces (100g)
If you are using 15 inches vacuum, I think you are near the original vacuum level used for milking. I would start with the factory weight.

Another item you might check is the condition of the interface of the top of the rod (brass-tipped) and the plastic "nose" of the vacuum fitting. Perhaps there is some gunk or corrosion or other damage preventing a good "fit" where the rod is supposed to be held up by the 15 inches of suction. I also had that "bouncing" problem, but don't exactly remember if the correct weight solved it, or how I resolved it.
Keep us posted.

[maplecrest]

you got check or swing valves in your set up. the valves will had the vac and let release. need to lay with it to get it right. when i was playing with those weights were a pain. your problem is air causing the motion. system is not tight

[Dennis H.]

Here is another thought, you mentioned that you bought a new top cap that the rod fits into. Is it the correct one?
There are a few different sizes out there. One for the small Benders and one for the larger Benders.
You want the top of the rod to fit in there with almost no wiggle room.

Vac level shouldn't be the problem. It will take very little vac to have "grab" on the top of the rod and hold it in the up position.

You say that you test setup you were sucking water into the Bender, do you have it throttled down to the level of flow you will see when sap is flowing. If you have it flowing full bore that could be causing some turbulence in there.

[Joust7.1]

Dennis,

I suspect that you are on to something and that the top cap may be the problem. I bought the top from Hambry along with the other seals and I seem to remember having to send one other parts back because it was for a different model. This sounds like the most plausible solution since I was already suspecting there was a bit more "play" in the plastic top where the bushing guides the top of the rod. I'll put the original on and see if it works before I try ordering another cap. Hopefully, I can find the original cap when I get home tonight. I know that it had a chip or crack in it, but I should be able to get it to work enough to isolate this problem. I have access to vacuum sealing tape from my Dad's composite business. Should be able to use some of that over the crack for testing purposes. I'll be psyched if this is all there is to fixing this issue.

lpakiz also suggested looking at this interface and since I didn't think there was any build up, I'm inclined to think it's the interface and that the top is too big.

Thanks for all of these suggestions.

[Dennis H.]

Not sure where the chip or crack is on your original cap but as long as it is not in the center hole it will work just fine.
I had 2 small benders and one had a flat black top cap that was maybe 3" OD. It had a small raised center part that the float rod was located.
On the other bender it had a small gray center cap that was a total of 1 1/2" OD.

As long as the center hole where the float rod moves is in good condition it will work fine.
Now remember with the Benders there will always be a little vac leak at the top cap. There is no way to seal it completely and still have the float rod move up and down when needed. It will be a very close fit, something like 1/64-1/32".

Oh by the way I used a Bender with the vac running at 22-23" of vac and had no problems with it. Once you get the weights right for the amount of vac you are running it should run smoothly.

[Joust7.1]

I set things up again today to try and isolate the problem. Step 1 - I tried the original cap. Result: no change. Step 2 - I tried changing the weight to match the original weight (mine never had the original weight, so this was very helpful to know where to start) of 2.2 or 2.3 oz as suggested. Results: no change. Step 3 - tried lighter and heavier weights from this baseline. Result: no change. Step 4 installed a vacuum gauge at various points in the system to see what it was actual drawing for vacuum. Both the vacuum line and the manifold all reached 15" very clearly. When the Bender was introduced or included in the system it would max out at 10". I am guessing that the releaser won't work unless the vacuum is closer to 15" to hold the rod in the up position.

Question: Should there be that much drop in vacuum in a Bender, I know that everyone says that it will leak a bit, but should it result in that much drop?

It was starting to rain and I had to go to work so I decided to call it quits for today. I will try using the vacuum bagging tape once it dries up to see if I'm getting a loss around the jar. There are a couple of chips at the top of the jar where the gasket rests and the metal top sits.

[lastwoodsman]

I fiddled around this past spring to get mine working, and from what you describe you still have a vacuum leak somewhere.

[farmall h]

Joust7.1 From what you are describing it sounds like you may not have the feed line in the proper nipple. It needs to be on the bottom. If I were you, do a quick search on "bender releasers" here on the trader. Narrow your search down to posts made by Dennis H and find the pictures of the two benders he ran. Pictures are a thounsand words.

[Joust7.1]

Had some time today to take a fresh look at this issue. I was able to get the new seal put on the brass fitting of the rod head. This didn't seem to make much difference. I tried the vacuum tape on several potential leaks on the top of the bender and could get up to 15" only if I sealed off the space between the black cap and the stainless top of the bender. Obviously this would keep the unit from working but this at least helped locate the area of vacuum leak. With basically all new parts except for the rod, this is still not releasing and only bounces causing a loss of vacuum and no appreciable dumping of the unit. Certainly a long way from a complete cycle. Has anyone experienced problems with the rod head (brass end with the holes and hollow section)? I'm starting to run out of ideas but I've already invested too much into this releaser/manifold to give up.

[bairdswift]

I would say you have a hose in the Wrong spot post a pic of your set-up!

[Joust7.1]

Here is a picture of the releaser:
6151

Hopefully this shows up and gives you an idea of what I'm dealing with. The vacuum line is connected to the elbow at the top of the releaser. The sap line would be the black line coming in from the left and behind. I have three ball valves for in feeding sap lines. One on the back left that you can't see (the one being used for this test) and two on the right which you can see next to the vertical chamber. There are two check valves at the bottom of the releaser and both allow flow to the left. I'm starting to wonder if the vertical chamber is what is causing the problem. Maybe too much liquid (weight) in there when it is trying to release. I also have a video of this in operation, which I will try to post.

[Dennis H.]

Ok 1st, is there a vac line to the top of the chamber on the right? You want vac there. That way vac does not need to go thru the bender and the check valve to get to the mainlines.
This will also keep vac on the mainlines while the bender is dumping.
2nd, I think having the chamber going all the way down to the check valve may be a problem area.
I kept my chamber above the sap level in the Bender and plumbed it into the Bender and check valve with 1" PVC. My thinking at the time was to give some head pressure to feed it into the Bender. But I rarely had any sap in the chamber besides when it was dumping.

It took me a little while to figure out how to get the Bender to work smoothly, but once I got them to work they worked great.
Another thing to do is also to make a little roof or something over the Bender. Any snow or freezing rain that lands on the top of the Bender will cause it to freeze because of that small vac leak and once it gets into the top cap it WILL cause it to hang up and not dump of not reset after dumping.

[Joust7.1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwTqGkHkeSg

I uploaded a video of the releaser on youtube. Hopefully this helps illustrate the issue that I'm having. I forgot to mention that the tubing coming off the top of the vertical pvc chamber was intended as a "jump" line for vacuum. This didn't seem to work very well as it sucked water into the vacuum line. Consequently, I had it capped off in both the picture and the video.

[Dennis H.]

so what you are saying is the only way for "vac" to get to the mainlines is it has to go all the way thru that jar full of sap and thru that T at the bottom then thru that check valve and then up thru all that sap in the PVC chamber?
You need the vac line hooked up to the top of the PVC chamber. Just think what the vac has to overcome to just get to the mainlines. Also I think you need to get a little more height on the PVC chember so that the weight of the sap is abover the high level in the glass jar. Right now the liquid level is the same in both the glass jar and pvc chamber and it look like it just needs a little more height in the glass jar to finally get the float to stay up and allow it to dump. Also I think that burpping thru all that sap is what is also causing it to surge.

I made the pvc chamber on mine horizontal instead of vertical and I put plexiglas on one end so I could see what was going on in there. That helped alot in working out all those like issues.

[Joust7.1]

Dennis,

This is very helpful advice. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I completely get what you are saying about having a vac line to the top of the chamber. That is the way that I designed it, however it immediately sucked sap into the vac line. I think it is because there is better vac on that side of the system since the other side has the Bender and thus an inherent small leak. My thought was that with the jump line attached it was preventing the first check valve from opening at all because of the greater vacuum on that side. Do you have any thoughts about this or ways that you have overcome this difference? Also, I have been suspecting for some time that the vac chamber and it's height/location was an issue. The vac level drops dramatically at the inlet valves of my manifold. How big of a vac chamber would I need for about 100-125 max taps? I can see about converting it to a horizontal tank and placing it higher in the system. Do you have any pictures of your setup to share. I tried to model my design based on some that I've seen on the trader, however I can't find most of those pics anymore.

[PARKER MAPLE]

I dont believe you need a larger chamber you need to raise it up above the level of sap in the releaser. from what i see any ways, I believe its all related to this. vac isnt making a cycle because its locking up (vacuum locked) when it vac locks it causes the surging in the lines and float to stick.. I would try raiseing the vac chamberlike 14in or so or at least to the top of the releaser

[Joust7.1]

Maple Enthusiast,

Thank you for the tip. I just spent about 4 hours getting things reconfigured (raising the vac chamber) and fiddling around to see if this would solve the problem. I also was able to add a jump line like Dennis suggested. Both were unsuccessful in getting this Bender to cycle. The temperature started to drop and I was doing this outside, so I had to call it for now. I'm sure that the icing up conditions by the end were contributing to complications. I don't know what else to try but I keep coming back to the fact that it doesn't seem like the rod is getting enough "grab" when the float brings it up to release the vacuum. Since I've never seen another one of these in real life, I'm only guessing here.
P.S. the jump line did seem to help keep the vacuum level up until the bouncing begins (thanks Dennis).
P.P.S. given the time and $ I've spent on this so far, I'm sure I could have gotten a nice, new commercial releaser by now. I guess this is why this hobby is fun, it keeps you coming back for more and more even when you get very frustrated.
P.P.P.S. Happy New Year to all the sugarmakers out there...


I dont believe you need a larger chamber you need to raise it up above the level of sap in the releaser. from what i see any ways, I believe its all related to this. vac isnt making a cycle because its locking up (vacuum locked) when it vac locks it causes the surging in the lines and float to stick.. I would try raiseing the vac chamberlike 14in or so or at least to the top of the releaser

[lpakiz]

Joust,
Do Iunderstand you correctly when you say the other vac line is capped off? If not, hook the vac from the pump ONLY into the top plastic fitting on top of the releaser. No vacuum any place else. (for now)
Also, it looked like the plastic vacuum elbow-connector on top of the Bender was at a slight angle. Is this an optical illusion? The nose of the plastic elbow must be square to the brass tip of the float rod so it has a good "seal" to hold up the rod until the float drops all the way down to the bottom clip. How much vacuum do you get in the Bender jar itself? I put a vacuum gage in the upper wash-out port on the Bender cover. I also installed a real small Oring in the nose of the plastic vacuum fitting. Actually, I have a lathe and made a new inlet fitting from 1/2-20 bolt with the oring in the end of the bolt nose.
Do I have you confused yet???
My mainline comes in at the level of the horizontal line under your Bender jar. I am slope-challenged in my location, so I can't afford any wasted elevation. There are 200 taps coming into my Bender and it works good without any external accumulators.

[lpakiz]

Joust,
Another thing---the nose of the white plastic elbow is what "grabs" the top of the brass head on the float rod. The nose of the white fitting must be available for direct contact by the brass rod-tip so it can grab it and hold it up until the weight of the falling float hits the bottom clip, therby pulling the float rod down off the nose of the plastic fitting, thereby sealing the jar off from atmosphere (with the little black tapered rubber thingy) and re-establishing vac in the Bender jar..
These things work, by George, and I think we can get yours to work too.

[Joust7.1]

Larry,

These are some good thoughts. I too am a bit vertically challenged in my woods, so I'm happy to hear that you got yours to work with the mainline coming in at the bottom of the jar. I will hold off on that experiment until I get mine to cycle. To answer a few of your questions... The plastic elbow is plumb but I looked at that picture again and it certainly doesn't look it. My elbow was a new replacement that I bought along with all new seals and a top cap when I purchased the used Bender. I took some time after my first few tests to smooth out the part line that was left at the nose of the elbow thinking that it was letting too much vacuum escape and preventing the grab of the brass fitting on the rod. With that in mind, the metal bracket that supports the jar has the threaded hole for the elbow to screw into. On mine there is a bit of play between these threads and I'm always very careful not to cross thread elbow. I will try to find an "O" ring to fit the nose like you suggested. How big is yours? Is it just big enough to maintain the inside hole or is it big enough to just fit into the sleeve in the top cap? I guess I'm wondering if it is designed to better seal against the brass fitting or the top of the top cap? Also, is there an optimal amount of insertion of the plastic elbow into the top cap. After testing mine for several attempts it is starting to work it's way further into the top cap. Not enough to prevent the rod to move but more than just resting on top of the cap.

Well, I guess I had more questions than answering yours.

Oh yeah, I'm only getting 12.5" max vac in the Bender. I too put a gauge on the top/side nipple. I get a full 15" from my delaval vac pump. Things are starting to get a little cobbed together and I could be getting some loss in other areas. I will make sure things are "tight" if/when I can ever get this unit to cycle correctly. That brings up another question. Can you modify the vac regulator on a dairy pump to get a bit more than 15"? I don't want to sacrifice the pump but it seems like it works very easy at 15". I thought that I've heard of others getting like 17-18" without a major investment.


Joust,
Another thing---the nose of the white plastic elbow is what "grabs" the top of the brass head on the float rod. The nose of the white fitting must be available for direct contact by the brass rod-tip so it can grab it and hold it up until the weight of the falling float hits the bottom clip, therby pulling the float rod down off the nose of the plastic fitting, thereby sealing the jar off from atmosphere (with the little black tapered rubber thingy) and re-establishing vac in the Bender jar..
These things work, by George, and I think we can get yours to work too.

[lpakiz]

Joust, A maple dealer told me to toss out the vacuum regulator on my SP11, so I did. I happen to be running mine on a 3 1/2 HP gas engine, so I could run it less than the recommended 500 RPM. Most days I am at 20 inches, but on good days 23 is doable. These are the days that I can throttle down and keep the pump head cool.

[lpakiz]

Without looking at my Bender, I forget exactly how the nose of the plastic fitting and the round disc/seat interact. I am sure, how ever, that the plastic fitting should not creep down or loosen inside the gray disc after it is tightened down. If this is questionable, I can go out to the shop later and check that out. I did modify one Bender bracket to take a bigger inlet fitting. To do that, I reamed out and re-tapped the threads to 5/8 NF and used a 5/8 section of bolt to make the fitting. Now the vac hose enters on a vertical plane, but it works fine.


The kids (30 and 31) got us an IPad for C'mas, so I could get some photos of things if you want. I think.
I do have a photo of my Bender set up on the old PC and will post that in a bit.

[Dennis H.]

Here is a Pic of my Bender setup that used for a few years and had very little issues with it.
Bender Releaser (http://mapletrader.com/maplegallery/showphoto.php?photo=541&title=small-bender&cat=500)

There is as second image of it there also.

As you can see I have vac coming in by the barb fitting on top of the horizontal chamber and There is a small hose that transfer vac over to the glass jar.

[Joust7.1]

Dennis and Larry, Thanks again for all your help and Dennis for the pictures.

It was just too cold here yesterday to set up for any more experiments. I think we reached -3* F around dinner time last night. I spent some time looking at the rod, top cap and plastic elbow last night (inside the house where it was warm). What continues to puzzle me is that it doesn't look like the brass rod tip can rise high enough to actually have any direct interface with the nose of the elbow, even when it is screwed down tightly. Is this normal or should the nose actually touch the brass rod tip when it rises to the dump mode? The rod tip bottoms out (actually "tops out") on an internal flange in the opening of the cap right at the top of the internal metal sleeve that the rod tip rides. Since it appears that there is a gap of a few 16th's, could this be the issue? If so, do I have the wrong elbow or top cap? They were ordered from Hambry and look very close to the ones that came with the Bender. I couldn't try it with the originals when I received it because the original elbow was broke during delivery. The only difference that I can see is that the replacement top cap is a little thicker in height and yes I did try the original one several times but it had a crack at the interface and I figured that was allowing too much vacuum to escape.

Here are a couple pictures to show the details of some of my parts as well as the difference between the original and replacement top cap (thickness).

6164

6166

[lpakiz]

6167
Here is a pic of my Bender in operation. Blue sap line comes in on left side. Both check valves in the horizontal portion of the system. It dumps into the bulk tank into the agitator hole--behind the grey refractometer case. You can see the outlet check valve to the right of the Bender nipple. The intake CV is located about under the 2nd hose clamp from the blue sap line. Both of these check valves are Bender OEM. Note the vac gage--looks like around 20HG

[lpakiz]

Joust, I PM'ed you with some contact info.....

[Joust7.1]

Back to the beginning...
I found the original plastic vac elbow in my desk at work. I had been carrying it around in my work bag for a while and must have put it their before a trip. Anyway, it is quite different then the replacement that I received from Hamby Dairy. In fact the nose was domed over on the replacement instead of squared off as I think Larry may have suggested. Additionally the inside "hollow" was only 3/16" versus the 1/4" on the original. Then looking at all of these parts and their interface, inside the house where it was warm, I discovered that the brass top of the float rod would never come in contact with the nose of the elbow on the replacement set.

This morning it warmed up to 30 degrees from -18 F yesterday morning so I figured I'd give it another go with trying to cob together the original parts. I used some vacuum tape to seal off the crack in the top cap and to hold a vac line to the broken, original elbow (which there was enough to protrude above the threaded top of the mounting bracket. This allowed me to connect some vac to this part. I turned on the vac and since I didn't have my manifold inline I had to run full vac and full flow from a bucket which I thought might be a problem. However, it cycled completely for the first time in this 11 month experiment. I'm now pumped to rig this up more permanently which may require some machining of the wrongly sized replacement parts. I'll have to find somebody to help me with this from work as I don't have any equipment to do that myself.

I'm now back on board with vacuum and pumped to get this set up for the season. Thanks again for all of the help and troubleshooting. I should have just tried to make the original broken parts work when I first received them and I could have probably been on vac last year.

So now for the new question... maybe this should be a new thread, I'm not entirely sure how these forums are supposed to work.

My dump station is about 650' from my sugar house and electricity. My vac pump is a DeLaval Dairy pump with a 3/4 HP electric motor. My options as far as powering this pump are as follows:
1. Run a long electrical line to the pump (probably heavy gauge and expensive)
2. Keep the pump at the sugar house and run a long dryline from sugar house to run the releaser and dump station (maybe less expensive but would it be less effective)
3. Buy an gas motor and set that up with the pump (single use item and could go through a lot of fuel?)
4. Buy a generator and use that to power the pump (has the added benefit of running a transfer pump from dump station into my gathering tank and would be available for a power outage at the house, which we have already considered / also would potentially use a lot of fuel).

I'm not sure if anyone else has looked at these options and made a decision based on function and cost but I'm interested in hearing some thoughts about this.

[wiam]

I have my vacuum pump in a shed away from the sugarhouse. I don't want to hear it when boiling. I have about 1600' of 1.25" buried line running to a mechanical releaser on 1000 taps. Before this I had a gas powered pump at the releaser. What a pain. If you can go electric do it! When I turn the switch on the pump is on.

[lpakiz]

Joust... That is a great feeling to see that Bender cycling correctly, ain't it?
I also experimented in the basement before the first year and just used a 5 gallon pail under the Bender to dump into and pull out of. It worked great. Now to get your manifold and stuff rigged up.
Does the nose of the plastic fitting have a short tip with no threads-perhaps 1/8 to 3/16 long? Or is it just sort of rounded off?
I run a gas engine. If at all possible, use electric, and put the pump near the electric and use black plastic pipe to get the vac to the releaser

[Joust7.1]

Joust... That is a great feeling to see that Bender cycling correctly, ain't it?
I also experimented in the basement before the first year and just used a 5 gallon pail under the Bender to dump into and pull out of. It worked great. Now to get your manifold and stuff rigged up.
Does the nose of the plastic fitting have a short tip with no threads-perhaps 1/8 to 3/16 long? Or is it just sort of rounded off?
I run a gas engine. If at all possible, use electric, and put the pump near the electric and use black plastic pipe to get the vac to the releaser

Yes, this is a great feeling!!! The nose is the short tip style and squared off. The replacement one that didn't work was rounded or domed. I would guess that I would need 1.5 to 2.0" vac line to keep the vac up over 650ish feet? I will probably only have 100-125 of this as a max and my mainline is .75".

[Joust7.1]

I have my vacuum pump in a shed away from the sugarhouse. I don't want to hear it when boiling. I have about 1600' of 1.25" buried line running to a mechanical releaser on 1000 taps. Before this I had a gas powered pump at the releaser. What a pain. If you can go electric do it! When I turn the switch on the pump is on.

I like this idea. I don't know about burying the line but what kind of vac drop did you get, if any or was it negligible?

[wiam]

Vacuum at releaser is same at releaser as at pump. How many taps so you have? I would think that if a bender will keep up then you would not need more than 1" for your distance.

[Joust7.1]

I have this system up and running in my woods as of today. I ran a 1.25 vacuum line to the releaser from the sugar house. I installed a ball valve between the bender vac line and my manifold that has 3 - 3/4" mainlines connected. I have to almost close this valve to get the bender to work efficiently (I mean without bubbles and so that the sap actually fills the bender). It's like the bender and the manifold are fighting each other if the valve is open all the way. Is this how this type of set up should work?

[mike first timer]

I have the same setup.I tried using manifold but could not get it to work that good.So i took out the manifold and went directly to the bender and also changed out my check valve on the discharge side.Now it works flawlessly.

[Joust7.1]

Mike, how many mainlines do you have coming to your bender? Any chance you could send a picture? A few traders told me that I should have a second vacuum line (jump line) to the mainline side of the bender so that I'm not trying to draw vac through a full bender. Thoughts?

[lpakiz]

Joust,
I have one line coming in to the bottom of the bender. No manifolds, no valves, just the line. It works just fine. When there are air leaks, the sap boils vigorously in the bender jar as the air is pulled up thru the sap. Ideal? No, but it works.

[briansickler]

You should have a vaccuum line to the top of the bender from your vac pump. The only line to your manifold should be from the inlet on the bender jar where the sap enters. Just my thoughts.

Brian

[mike first timer]

Joust i have one 1 inch mainline coming in with 200 taps on it.I then have 500 ft of 3/4 in line for my vacuum running from my pump to my releaser.I get about 15 inches of vacuum at my bender.I think i would get more vacuum if i put my pump closer to my bender.

[Joust7.1]

Joust,
I have one line coming in to the bottom of the bender. No manifolds, no valves, just the line. It works just fine. When there are air leaks, the sap boils vigorously in the bender jar as the air is pulled up thru the sap. Ideal? No, but it works.

OK, after having this set up in the field, I think I need to try eliminating/modifying my manifold. I still have three mainlines that I have to connect to the inlet of the bender so some type of manifold is still necessary. I'm thinking of putting them inline and at the same height as the bender inlet and swing valve. I'm thinking about a simple threaded insert tee that I piece together with clear tubing so that I can see what's going on inside.

The problem I'm having with the "jump" or vac line to the top of my manifold/booster is that when the valve is closed all the way the bender continues to gurgle big bubbles. There doesn't seem to be any leaks to account for this as I can hold very good vac otherwise. Does it just take time to evacuate all the air in the system? If so, I just need to run it that way for longer until the bubbles subside. However, after 5 or so minutes it didn't seem to get any better. Conversely, when I open the valve all the way, it tends to suck the sap back up into my vertical downspout where the sap enters the bender inlet. Can the two sides be competing for the vacuum through the sap in the bender causing both the bender and my manifold to fill up at about the same rate? If this happens it will eventually flood my moisture trap, which is what it looks like it did yesterday when I left it for a few hours. Any pictures of successful bender setups would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Joust7.1]

I made a new manifold that puts my 3 mainlines inline with my Bender inlet. Now, if we can get some sap flow I can try this out as it is already set up in the field. No more "laboratory" testing, it has to work now.

[Joust7.1]

Update: releaser is working very reliably over the last couple of weeks. It pulls a lot of bubbles through the jar but it doesn't seem to affect the performance too much. I've been running my pump at 15-17" and get the same at my releaser 600' away. I'm getting tons of sap, especially when my buckets look to be idle. Already way ahead of my production goal for the year and anticipate more sap then I can boil when I get home from our track and field meet on Sunday.

[lpakiz]

All right!!!!